Mowing the grass.....

[Bones]

Had to fix up an old push mower I've had for about 15 years now but never used it - And I mean never used it.

Bought it new back in 02 and after getting it I ran it twice and put it away, all total it ran for about 40 minutes period and was never started again until yesterday. For some reason I just never used it and after getting it I had thought "Why did I even get this thing" after putting it away.

Fast foward:
Last week I finally pulled it back out and looked it over, the gas had dried up and turned into what can only be described as a "Brown powder" kind of residue, looked alot like sand/dust coming out when I began the cleaning process of the tank. I ordered a new carb because I already knew the old one was stopped up, I can get it fixed later so no biggie but after seeing a new one for just over $11 shipped on fleabay I jumped on it and got that bad boy on it's way here.

Yesterday I rinsed the fuel tank out with acetone and installed the new carb, filled it and because the primer bulb didn't seem to be picking up any fuel for now I manually primed the carb and went to start it.
First pull and it started right up - Perfectly.
Of course it only ran for a few seconds but it did start right up and ran fine until the priming fuel was gone. 

Today I tried it again, the primer still isn't picking up fuel but now I believe I know why. Regardless I manually primed it again, started it and worked the primer while it was running and it picked up fuel and ran period.
Did a bit of trimming with it before stopping, the old mower ran perfectly the entire time, no engine sputtering, surging or anything else.

I believe the primer issue is due to a warped backplate, I did some research and discovered that to fix this I'll need to double up on the carb mounting gasket and I have two so no prob there, just need to do it. Supposedly if you actually tighten/torque the carb mounting screws it will cause this to happen, doubling up on the gasket is the fix if this should happen.... BTW for reference it's a Briggs and Stratton 3.0 HP engine.

Just posting about it and maybe this tidbit about the carb and problems with the primer bulb not working may be of some use here. Dunno but I'm just glad it's OK and can be used now for trimming the lawn as needed. BTW I had to refer to this for getting the springs right and here's a pic just in case one of you may need it for reference.
I believe this applies to all engines with this style throttle/governor setup regardless.


Now I gotta work on the carb of my main mower (24HP Kohler Courage engine on a Husqvarna Z-5424 zero turn), have to keep the choke partially pulled out for it to run, obviously also due to a gummed up carb..... Not to mention the battery has gone South.
Not looking foward to it.

[Deleted]

Ah good story   Reminds me of my first Rover push mower with a Briggs & Stratton.

Where I lived renting, block next door was unused & full of rubbish building materials grass over 2 foot high.
Push the mower over it & it would lower like an elevator on to the debris. That's how I found & all & picked it out haha 
So yeah a front end loader would have been easier ... went well for about 14years still strong & sold it

[Bones]

Yeah, you can't beat a B&S for use with a mower or other things. Kohler is another that's good overall, I've never had any real problems with those either so that's a good engine to have too.

However a Tecumseh is one to avoid, those have certain issue(s) with the design such as the governor pin wearing out. This can cause one to actually "rev" to the point of blowing up if it gets bad enough because over time it runs faster and faster as the wear progresses to the point that, one day it just goes. Been told that by several small engine repair people that's had to work on them with this being a noted common problem. Also doesn't help nowadays Tecumseh is no longer in business so if you have one parts may be hard to come by now for them.
Overall those just don't have the reliability of a B&S and I've always used B&S whenever I can - Not that B&S can't have their share of problems because they do like all the rest.

I will however admit I at one time had a Tecumseh that hung in with what I was using it for and it did so for a good while. I only got rid of it after it began showing signs of the gov pin wear problem because I noticed one day "This engine is running faster than it really should be" so I went ahead and replaced the mower before the blowup happened. I've also experienced these being kinda hard to start and this one was no different, was stubborn at times about wanting to get going but once it did, all was OK with it.

With a B&S I've rarely had any problems about them being hard to start, normally within the first or second pull of the cord it's off and running. You have to have a really worn out one to run into this but like all else once it's worn out being hard to start, blowing/burning oil and such is expected anyway.

[Shadyreaper]

dude you wanna know who makes a damn good small motor honda LOL its about the best damn thing they ever made they last so damn long we used the shit outta them doing stucco only thing that would last on a mud mixer

[Deleted]

Come & push this Honda around   Over engineered like a brick shithouse. Twice as heavy as a normal mower needs to be, it's a real workout.
Ride on here is a Sears import Craftsman. 23HP B&S. Needed to be ... tuft's of grass a foot round @ the base.

Cutting deck has had x2 rebulds. But now it's a reline inside steel underneath job ... I don't mind welding & fabricating.
1st time in paddock hit a 5mm x 50mm x 600mm length steel flat. Partly shot through the cutting deck, unbalance the cutters.
www.google.com.au/search?rlz=1C1RLNS_enAU779AU779&ei=de6kWqb_HImX8wWOxLOYDQ&q=shingleback+lizard&oq=Shingleback&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i67k1j0i46k1j46l2j0i67k1l2j0j0i67k1j0l4.15913.15913.0.17393.1.1.0.0.0.0.217.217.2-1.1.0....0...1c.2.64.psy-ab..0.1.217....0.Aum6YBO_xh0
2nd time a Shingleback lizard, big too like your arm. Poor fella got filleted like a fish. Unpleasant chopped his top half clean off.
For those playing @ home, it was long grass & I did not see him   That actually is about the only time the motor has been stopped
3rd time another big chunk of metal ... like the first time. Deck rebuild again. 

[Bones]

Mar 10, 2018 23:27:22 GMT -5 Shadyreaper said:

dude you wanna know who makes a damn good small motor honda LOL its about the best damn thing they ever made they last so damn long we used the shit outta them doing stucco only thing that would last on a mud mixer

Honda makes some good stuff - The bike I ride is an example, it's a 2003 Shadow 750 ACE. The engine used is well known for reliability, some reportely topping 100,000 Miles with no real issues aside from routine maintenance itself.
Mine is closing in on the 40,000 mark and still runs fine, I've only ran the head (Valve adjustment) once since I've owned it, having bought it back in June 08 and although it's getting time to do it again, normal maintenance to that is 10,000 between adjustments and it's not terribly hard to do either, just time consuming overall.

I've seen Honda engines being used with all kinds of equipment as like you said Shady, they just run. Another japanese maker of engines I've seen is Kawasaki, some being used on zero turn mowers similar to the one I have. I can't say how good those are since I haven't been around them but they seem to drive the pricetag up a bit at least.

Could be good, could be like a Tecumseh was - Maybe one of you would know.

[Shadyreaper]

holy shit @avalanche crazy when ya gotta watch for giant lizards while mowing the lawn lol Bones my buddy had a 85 goldwing in the late 90s early 2000 that thing ran like brand new he swears by them hell he even put that one in garage and bought a brand new one he loves them so much lol and the old one still runs just as good as it did in the 90s lol

[Bones]

Goldwings are known for that and I've seen several older ones around still looking good. It's like anything else, take care of it and it will take care of you.

After I get a few things squared away I'll probrably pull the carb from the zero turn next and clean it out. Do an oil change and such it needs, then use it. Already know the blades are about shot but if they will hang in for one more season it will be OK, sharpened and balanced them right before it was parked for the winter so that's already been taken care of.

[WhiteWulfe]

Mar 10, 2018 23:27:22 GMT -5 Shadyreaper said:

dude you wanna know who makes a damn good small motor honda LOL its about the best damn thing they ever made they last so damn long we used the shit outta them doing stucco only thing that would last on a mud mixer

Can't resist... I dunno, the HondaJet is pretty damn innovative, and I'd argue that it's the best thing they've ever made

As for push mowers, I was half expecting it to be one of those manual ones, and I was all "huhhh? How'd that seize up"

[Shadyreaper]

Mar 11, 2018 9:39:27 GMT -5 WhiteWulfe said:

Mar 10, 2018 23:27:22 GMT -5 Shadyreaper said:

dude you wanna know who makes a damn good small motor honda LOL its about the best damn thing they ever made they last so damn long we used the shit outta them doing stucco only thing that would last on a mud mixer

Can't resist... I dunno, the HondaJet is pretty damn innovative, and I'd argue that it's the best thing they've ever made

As for push mowers, I was half expecting it to be one of those manual ones, and I was all "huhhh? How'd that seize up"

lol thats a jet man prob also needs a lot more maintenance the point was super reliable with hardly no  maintenance and beat half to death every day LOL and I mean mixing mud for 5-6 years with same motor without it dying with no breather on it that is a damn good motor if ya ask me LOL

[Bones]

I'd bet once it did wear out it WAS worn out.

I had a really OLD garden tractor years ago (Wheelhorse) that was from about 1972 with a 14HP Kohler engine. Reminded me to an extent of an old tractor that had all the belt drives and such on the side instead of it all underneath because it was like that, every drive belt went from up under it to up the side of the mower, right to the motor pulley.
Had one of the very first electric mowing deck clutches with it and it still worked. The old thing also had a hydrostatic trans and that worked very well except if you had to get off and push the thing for some reason. That was a problem because the thing was built like a tank, really heavy construction throughout that reminded me more of a mini-dozer or something. Even the mowing deck itself looked like something from heavy equipment compared to how decks are made nowadays.

It would spit, sputter at times, had sparks coming out of what was once a muffler, puffed oil smoke yet it ran and I mean it RAN.

The old thing was torquey so hitting a thick patch of grass woudn't pull it down too much, it would just chug right through it and had the visual effect of an old tractor puffing smoke under a load when it was working hard.
It was always kinda hard to start but finally got so worn out it just quit one day, woudn't start to save it's life. Would "Hit" but not actually start running, giving a puff of blue smoke everytime it did and I guess that was to be expected since it did use about a quart of oil each time the yard was mowed anyway.

I finally gave it to a guy that collected older mowers for restoration as a hobby.

From what I heard later the guy eventually went completely through it and got it back in working shape.

[Shadyreaper]

yea most the time dude the valve springs would break or the locker that is easy ass fix too since they are OHV but yea once they did die most the time it was just wore slap out and had too much blow by past the rings to get compression

[Bones]

Looks like the priming problem took care of itself once I got fuel to go into the bulb.
Tried it today without manually priming it nor having to work the bulb while it was running off the manual prime fuel, picked up fuel and primed on it's own.

The little mower fired up as usual and now I'm noting a bit of surge while it's running vs before, a simple adjustment of the gov spring should cure that with ease.

[Bones]

Believe I got the zeroturn sorted.

It was due for an oil change and I think what happened is the oil was a really cheap, thin grade from the factory - The mower only has about 60 hrs total since new on it.
What happened is the mower started sputtering and smoking like an oil fire, I mean it was putting out the smoke like I had poured trans fluid into it and it just started doing it suddenly without warning.

Since it had to be done anyway I grabbed a filter and some 10W-30W oil along with a bit of Lucas and did the deed. Used about 4 oz of Lucas since they suggest a 20% mix and the engine holds 2 quarts which would mean 3.2 oz is a 10% mix. Didn't want to go the full 20% (6.4 oz of it) because it's a mower engine so used 4 oz of it and that puts it at around a 15% or so mix - Good enough.

I got the mix like I wanted by simply pouring 4 oz of oil into the engine while the drain plug was still open and used that to "Flush" the engine a little, by doing that it had "Room" for the Lucas to go in without overfilling it.

Then after closing off the drain plug and changing the filter I poured that bottle in, took the Lucas and by looking at the side of the oil bottle since it has the oz's measured on it's side I got it to the 4 oz mark on the bottle, poured that in and finished refilling the oil to the proper level. Started the mower a few ago and after it smoked for a few seconds it cleared up and ran fine.

I still have to be sure it doesn't have a problem because that was with it just running, not under a load as in moving it around or whatever.

The old oil was literally like water, ran out and even had a gas smell to it, expected to an extent but it shoudn't have been as thin as it was. I even took a bit of the old oil and rubbed it between my fingers, basically no lubricity to it at all.
I can tell the Lucas is in it by checking lubricity in the same way, not too thick for it being it's a mower engine and that's why I didn't want a 20% mix in it. Another good thing is the mower never "Used" any oil during all this, it was still full before I drained it so the engine should be OK.

In a few I'll head out, fire it up and see if I can't get some grass mowed without any further issues.

ADDITIONAL:

Got the grass cut and it did great - Nothing coming out except grass.

This also revealed an addtional problem it solved - I was having to pull the choke out a bit for it to run right, one year it had sat over the winter and when I started it up again it wasn't running right until I did that.... Made me think the carb was gummed up a little from sitting as it had. Since it would run fine with it pulled out a little I just did that instead of removing the carb.

Had about 22 hours on the mower at that time.

Today:

After doing all that I had made two passes around the yard and it started losing power again and I was like "Well shit" - It's gonna quit but there was no oil smoke. I then pulled out the choke and it ran worse, pushed it all the way back in and it ran fine!

So the carb wasn't gummed up the whole time.

All I can advise with this is if you buy a mower, go ahead and drain the oil that's in it right when you get it. No need to do the filter, just the oil and once break in hours have been reached, do it with a filter, oil and maybe a little Lucas or other oil additive if you want.

I can't say if this issue really hurt the mower's engine but certainly didn't help it.

[ShrimpBrime]

That carb needs a good rebuild. 2 things Ive learnt on small engines.

Fuel in oil is either one of 2 things. 1st is the carb is dumping to much fuel. 2nd the piston has a spun ring or high hours and the rings bypass.

Since yours is low hours, Id grab a carb rebuild kit first.

[Bones]

You're probrably right but remember I'd been running it with the choke partially pulled out for awhile, that could have caused a rich condition which could have made some get into the oil over time.

If the carb were really gummed up then I'd still have to have the choke pulled out partially for it run right because before I did the work that's how it had to be ran to mow at all, now I can leave it pushed all the way in and it runs fine.
I will check on a kit for it though, whether it's gummed up or not I need one around anyway for when it's needed and that could be now.
I will monitor the condition of the oil and make sure it stays OK and if not I'll have the kit needed to fix it with.

[zila1]

Last year, knowing that my neighborhood Sears Store would be closing, I went out and bought myself my first brand new Lawn Mower in over 40 years. I had one brand new back in 1978. Best lawnmower I've ever had. Lasted about 20 years then I purchased refurbs/rebuilt from my neighborhood ma and pa small engine repair place. Always Craftsman Briggs and Stratton engines. The new one is a very nice machine. Ran great the first season..................and then in the Spring I could not get that sucker started to save my life. I tried everything I could think of outside of taking the carb and tank out. It was still under warranty but I didn't want to take it in. Looked in the fuel tank.........clean as a whistle. Flushed it anyways. NO START, not even trying. Like there is just no fuel making it thru. Pull the air filter.........Clean......washed it anyways. Okay, by now I'm thinking okay, pulling the carb. To my surprise, and the very first time I'm seeing this. The carburetor is all plastic. I knew right at this point that this was gonna suck. That carb is a piece of crap. I took it all apart and it looked totally clean. Blew it out and put it back in the mower. WOULD NOT START. I spent a week on this thing and was gonna give up on it when one of my buddies comes by and says "piece of shit new style plastic carb?" I said why yes. He says "I've got one of those, I hate it. Go get some high grade Premium fuel from BP and that will fix it. These things don't run well on the newer fuels and those plastic carbs don't meter well."

Seeing as how nothing else was working I dumped all the fuel out, cleaned the fuel system and fully drained the tank hoses and carb bowl, went out and got some of that BP Premium which at the time was $4.00 per gallon. Put it in, waited a while til I knew the fuel had pretty much filled the system, primed it real good..................and it started up the first try. And has been running beautifully ever since. This freaking thing hates Regular fuel. It runs great though. Real strong and never hesitates to start or run now............................on Premium Fuel.

[ShrimpBrime]

My tractor has a Kohler engine. Did the fuel lines and filter. Dang engine would run the filter dry. So I removed the recommended filter and use a screen mesh high flow filter. Not a single issue since.

[Bones]

Mine is a 24hp Kohler Courage and it runs fine ATM.
I'm hoping after all this nothing was hurt and so far doesn't seem like it. Next up is to grab a tube of grease and lube the bearings of the deck and such, clean that out of old grass gummed up to it..... You know the drill.

[Bones]

Checked it again and yes, it's getting raw gas into the crankcase.
Removed the dipstick to check the oil and what was on it didn't look right so I checked that - STRONG gas smell to it plus it didn't have any of the slick feel to it. Apparently it's seeping gas while it's sitting. I haven't ran it since the yard was mowed just checked it and discovered it, the gas is in fact on top of the oil itself as a layer meaning it seeped in while sitting.

Carb comes off today and I'm checking the needle valve and float, probrably has some trash in it making it seep gas via the needle valve. I also saw if you have a shutoff valve, use it everytime you shut it down if this is a persistent problem and mine already has one so I'm using it from now on.

Get the trash out/float unstuck/replaced and all else cleaned out and that should do it. 

EDIT:

Since it wasn't ran since I finished the yard the gas was a layer on top of the oil, hadn't mixed in with it. Saw that when I drained it out, the oil came out slowly, then it had gas coming out like water. I looked at the carb and it has a solenoid on the bowl.

I did see while reading up on it where it can go bad, get stuck or get trash in it and many said they had it happening repeatedly after several carb rebuilds - So instead they started using the fuel shutoff everytime it was parked and that solved it long term. 

With that being noted as a commonly recurring problem  and the fact it's running fine otherwise I'll just do that instead. Besides, reaching the shutoff isn't a big deal - Shut it off, let it "Run out of gas" and that's it.

So I guess I can treat it like a Farmall tractor, you ALWAYS had to shut it's fuel off when you parked it or else.

[ShrimpBrime]

That solenoid is there to close the bowl when you turn the ignition off. Thats all its there for.

[Mr.Scott]

Jul 8, 2018 9:23:47 GMT -5 ShrimpBrime said:

That solenoid is there to close the bowl when you turn the ignition off. Thats all its there for.

Exactly.

[Bones]

Jul 8, 2018 9:23:47 GMT -5 ShrimpBrime said:

That solenoid is there to close the bowl when you turn the ignition off. Thats all its there for.

Figured that, does the same thing a lockoff does with an LP fuel system.

Probrably has an issue of some kind going on - Checked the cutoff and it's working so (At least for now) I can do it that way.

Between not having alot of $$ to spare and times when I don't feel like doing anything because of my medical issues it will have to do until I can get a replacement and be up to doing it period. If I can put it off until mowing season is over that would be ideal for me instead of having to get it done in a hurry because I'd need to mow the grass soon.

[ShrimpBrime]

Rebuild kit cant cost more than 20 bucks. Since the carb is plastic it may be also cheap to just get the entire carb new.

If you install new or rebuild the carb, the rings are shot. Since it sat soo long, the rings probably had considerable rust as well as the cylinder liner. That would cause fuel in oil instantly.

Might have to go as far as pulling the head, put the cylinder to bottom dead center and check the sleeve for pitting.

[Bones]

Jul 8, 2018 11:51:44 GMT -5 ShrimpBrime said:

Rebuild kit cant cost more than 20 bucks. Since the carb is plastic it may be also cheap to just get the entire carb new.

If you install new or rebuild the carb, the rings are shot. Since it sat soo long, the rings probably had considerable rust as well as the cylinder liner. That would cause fuel in oil instantly.

Might have to go as far as pulling the head, put the cylinder to bottom dead center and check the sleeve for pitting.

I believe you may have the zeroturn and the pushmower confused/mixed up.

The zeroturn itself hasn't been sitting, it's been ran every year since new even though it only has 60 hrs total on it ATM.

Takes about 20 min to do the yard so that's 1 hr of runtime on average for a month's worth of use, that's why the hours on it are so low for an 8 year old mower.

The pushmower is what had sat for so long - It's been fixed period, complete with a new (Plastic) carb installed and doing great - No issues there now.

Getting back to the zeroturn I'm quite prepared to dive right into it if I must even though I may not feel like it - But at least I have all my airtools from back when I was working on equip in the field out of the company van. 

Getting a direct replacement (Crate) engine can be done too but I seriously doubt (At this point anyway) I'd have to go that far to fix things with it.

[ShrimpBrime]

I did get them mixed up it seems.

[Bones]

I'll have a chance to check it again later today, shutoff valve is being used and it works (Confirmed) so it shouldn't have any more gas seeping in.

Good thing I did check it yesterday, would have sucked to ruin it that way and there was even the possibility of it literally blowing up with that much gas in it. Know a guy that told me in his youth he worked at a salvage yard and they used to have fun blowing up junkers doing that.

Pour it full of gas, fire it up, stand on it until it went "Boom".

As crazy as this guy is/was I don't doubt it.

[ShrimpBrime]

Just run a compression test Rod. That'll tell you what's what.

As far as that guy blowing up motors that was, well.... he's dumb. Bottom of the class dumb.

Seen the front right corner of a C-15. Oh yea, it blew it'self right out. Still ran too lol.

[Bones]

Jul 9, 2018 18:49:49 GMT -5 ShrimpBrime said:

Just run a compression test Rod. That'll tell you what's what.

As far as that guy blowing up motors that was, well.... he's dumb. Bottom of the class dumb.

Seen the front right corner of a C-15. Oh yea, it blew it'self right out. Still ran too lol.

That's one tool I don't have in my box ATM but can be gotten easily - That's not a bad idea in case the rings got washed and to know that would be a good thing.

The engine fired up this morning and ran like a top, no smoking or anything else to note and the shutoff is doing it's job. The oil itself was fine with no additional gas seeping in and the lubricity of it was as it should be.

I will however as said look up a kit and solenoid for it, the solenoid is the most likely suspect here and as long as it stays open fuel will flow. I'll also have to be sure there isn't an electrical problem with it but since I know it's the power on/open type it's just more or less a direct voltage application - A quick test with a meter will reveal any problems there if they exist but most likely not with this. 

 

[ShrimpBrime]

If the float solenoid didnt work, the bowl would overfill and dump right out. You would see fuel every where. Carb will be visibly flooded.