ZEN

[Vinster]

Dec 8, 2016 20:28:20 GMT -5 ozz said:

just had a look and went to sign up but you have to tick the box to allow other amd and gaming stuff to be sent to be viable to get the live stream, what i dont want is my inbox full of AMD advertising, which i think thats what people will get

I've already gotten a few crap emails... but nothing that had me raging at my phone while at work.. lol

Vin

[ozz]

Dec 8, 2016 21:12:49 GMT -5 Vinster said:

Dec 8, 2016 20:28:20 GMT -5 ozz said:

just had a look and went to sign up but you have to tick the box to allow other amd and gaming stuff to be sent to be viable to get the live stream, what i dont want is my inbox full of AMD advertising, which i think thats what people will get

I've already gotten a few crap emails... but nothing that had me raging at my phone while at work.. lol

Vin

thought that could be the case vinnie, ill wait i think

[Shadyreaper]

Dec 8, 2016 21:20:34 GMT -5 ozz said:

Dec 8, 2016 21:12:49 GMT -5 Vinster said:

I've already gotten a few crap emails... but nothing that had me raging at my phone while at work.. lol

Vin

thought that could be the case vinnie, ill wait i think

lol I get AMD crap all the time from when I had my XFX HD7950s and 8350 I am thinkin I dont use amd no more stop sending me that shit but I always know what is new and coming up lmao 

[ozz]

yeah i know shady, but where these companies go wrong is instead af looking at it and saying well we arent getting productive business from all the bullshit adverstising from these products, they dont redirect the money properly for it to be developing a better product, like zen for eg, just look at intel, its worked for them coz they have the developed products, a problem with AMD now for a long time,  imagine all the wasted money that ultimately the consumer pays for in the product going into better development of their products, if they did that then their advertising is worth its weight in gold, intel has proved that i think

[ozz]

dunno what the zen will be like but personally, id like to see amd concentrate on the fm2 or maybe a fm3 series, apu series, i havent any apu fm1 cpus but i have 6 or so fm2 apus, all do over 5 gig and the subs are there to see , im not sure of amd's formats or structure but i think the apu series has been a bit forgotten and its been it best performer since phenom and the fx series, the other guys here better knowledge than me and could tell better im sure, when a cpu can do 5 gig on air or water i think its doin pretty good, fm2 apu's do it, and theyre a tough cpu with it, same as fx series, my fx4130 does 5+. on air and 5.4 on cold water, really hoping they have mixed the structure with fx, apu to the zen series .

[ShrimpBrime]

I got one advertised e-mail today after signing up yesterday. I'll click to unsubscribe after the video is launched and watched. No Biggie. Im sure it will be recorded for those who miss the live stream.


It's a fresh new build. It will be nothing like the FX chips. 40% IPC gains on 1000mhz less clock speeds. Rumor has it overclocking on LN2 might get you between 4.5 and 5ghz topped out. But we will have to wait and see the results of that.

really hoping they have mixed the structure with fx, apu to the zen series

[ozz]

i dunno shrimpy about zens capabilities  but i do know this if the zen series cant match intel and, keep up with or better than fx or apu series theyre done with, and i have my doubts, amd just hasnt the processing power intel does , and i love amd, and its been so obvious for so many years now, and i dont even really know what im talkin about here, but from what i have here intel absolutely kills and in everything

[Macsbeach98]

It doesnt have to actually match intel it just has to be in the ballpark.
If they sell 8core 16 thread CPUs for $400 US that has comparable performance to the X5960 $1000 US it is going to sell.
Another thing HWBot users is not the main marketplace even gaming which is umteen times bigger than HWBot isnt either.
Its more the OEM computer market place where good cheap performance will sell big.

[ozz]

yes pete but amd has been trailing intel for yrs, not even in the race, as you pointed out to me and showed me here , intel againsty amd in sp1 for eg, no comparison, and thats in older cpus,  i still think amd didnt do enough with the apu series, i like apus yes, theyre tough and reliable , they clock well, and better than fx overall i think depending on cooling of course, id like you to take the crossblade and a few apus ive got here and ln2 them both, then see what you get, i think some how well be both surprised

[Macsbeach98]

Yes I know they have been trailing intel by a big margin since Core 2 came out, before that 939 and AM2 were the fastest around.
AMD's Glory days. One of the reasons everyone has a love for 939 and AM2.

The Excavator core was an improvement over Bulldozer / Piledriver some of these latest APU's can get down to high 10 sec SPI under 5Ghz.
With 40% IPC improvement over Excavator Zen should be right in the mix with intel.

One thing is for certain though with this upcoming live telecast on Zen from AMD every bench and what they show will be handpicked to suit it.
Intel do the same thing with releases handpick everything so the product shines.

The real test will be when its out in the wild and independent reviewers and benchmarks are then done to know its real world performance.

I for one am hopeful that it shines.

And no I dont want to freeze your crossblade I have already said that freezing them with nitrogen is no good for the life of them.
The contraction and expansion of the socket and the lead free solder balls is detrimental to their long term health.

[Shadyreaper]

the biggest thing AMD has going for them is the console they freaking own the market on console hardware that is what is saving them right now that and they have good low end budget video cards I kinda hope AMD does great with Zen and forces intel to drop their prices cause right now shit is outta hand and intel thinks they can just throw out any old price and people will buy I bought a FX8350 when they came out it then I found it benches compared to a quad core from intel I was kinda upset

[Vinster]

Dec 9, 2016 4:46:39 GMT -5 Macsbeach98 said:

If they sell 8core 16 thread CPUs for $400 US that has comparable performance to the X5960 $1000 US it is going to sell.

This is my hope.. an x5960 is a hell of a bump up from my 980x.. so if I can get that bump at a fraction, they got me.

Vin

[Macsbeach98]

The price is the one thing that worries me about Zen.
Although I know AMD badly wants market share so are they going to sell them cheap to get the sales going and everyone in or is there another reason they are so cheap.
When AMD was king back in 2005 the FX57 when released was over $1000 US so dont think AMD dont know how to charge.
www.anandtech.com/show/1722
Read the last paragraph on that page.

Also over the last few years a lot of the Radeon cards have been priced a lot closer to the Nvidea cards than the price gap is going to be here.
And the RX480 has comparable performance to GTX 1060 and they are priced similarly. 

I do hope the price is just for market share and they excel I really do.

Shady if Zen doesnt match the x6950 intel wont drop their price.

[Mr.Scott]

Dec 9, 2016 16:17:11 GMT -5 Macsbeach98 said:

The price is the one thing that worries me about Zen.
Although I know AMD badly wants market share so are they going to sell them cheap to get the sales going and everyone in or is there another reason they are so cheap.

No company works to give product away. There is a reason they can sell this cheap. The reason is ......Intel has been gouging the public for so long that everybody has come to accept their pricing as the standard. It is not.

[Macsbeach98]

I agree with intels price gouging and no company can last without a profit margin.
Its going to be priced similarly to the 6700k to which it will eat in multi threaded tasks it has to be a big win for AMD.
It should be a big seller.

[Shadyreaper]

Dec 9, 2016 16:17:11 GMT -5 Macsbeach98 said:

The price is the one thing that worries me about Zen.
Although I know AMD badly wants market share so are they going to sell them cheap to get the sales going and everyone in or is there another reason they are so cheap.
When AMD was king back in 2005 the FX57 when released was over $1000 US so dont think AMD dont know how to charge.
www.anandtech.com/show/1722
Read the last paragraph on that page.

Also over the last few years a lot of the Radeon cards have been priced a lot closer to the Nvidea cards than the price gap is going to be here.
And the RX480 has comparable performance to GTX 1060 and they are priced similarly. 

I do hope the price is just for market share and they excel I really do.

Shady if Zen doesnt match the x6950 intel wont drop their price.

you mean 5960x and yea if it dont compare the prices wont drop if they do tho I will be upgrading to a 5960x when they drop in price lol 

[Mr.Scott]

Intel will not be in any hurry to drop prices regardless of what happens with Zen. That would let the GP know that they were getting screwed.

[Vinster]

Dec 9, 2016 16:30:06 GMT -5 Mr.Scott said:

Dec 9, 2016 16:17:11 GMT -5 Macsbeach98 said:

The price is the one thing that worries me about Zen.
Although I know AMD badly wants market share so are they going to sell them cheap to get the sales going and everyone in or is there another reason they are so cheap.

No company works to give product away. There is a reason they can sell this cheap. The reason is ......Intel has been gouging the public for so long that everybody has come to accept their pricing as the standard. It is not.

I think nVidia is doing this as well... remember the 8800GTS/GTX era and before that... top end cards topped out at $499... Now 1080 is near the $850+ but on release I remember seeing it at $1100.. granted this is Canadian Dollars... but crap man...

I thought the process was getting simpler as they make it smaller with advancements in technology... until now I've always had the top end GPU/CPU..

But will all these prices now it's just ain't going to happen... I need Zen to be priced right..

Vin

[ozz]

well i dont know too much about it all but i see it like this, if AMD dont make this Zen a fair and reachable price structure theyll miss the boat completely, and all their work, time and money spent will be a waste...surely AMD know if they dont... people just wont buy it except for the die hard AMD fanboys, they need to get this right and im sure they know it especially if they want market share and be able to compete with intel

[Macsbeach98]

I will explain it this way Shane it doesnt have to compete directly with the X5960 it will have the same amount of cores and threads but its price point of $400 US puts it a lot closer to the $339 US 6700K (newegg price) than the $1000 US X5960.
With 40% better IPC (instruction per clock) than Excavator it should be close or match the 6700K in single threaded performance but will have similar multi threaded performance to the X5960.
For the OEM manufacturers being able to offer X5960 multi threaded performance for the price of what they are offering 6700K performance now is a big win for them and for the consumers.
It doesnt really matter if the performance is just slightly behind intel for the OEM and normal consumers its the performance they can deliver for a price point that matters.
It will be a big win for AMD thats for sure.

[ozz]

Dec 10, 2016 1:31:39 GMT -5 Macsbeach98 said:

I will explain it this way Shane it doesnt have to compete directly with the X5960 it will have the same amount of cores and threads but its price point of $400 US puts it a lot closer to the $339 US 6700K (newegg price) than the $1000 US X5960.
With 40% better IPC (instruction per clock) than Excavator it should be close or match the 6700K in single threaded performance but will have similar multi threaded performance to the X5960.
For the OEM manufacturers being able to offer X5960 multi threaded performance for the price of what they are offering 6700K performance now is a big win for them and for the consumers.
It doesnt really matter if the performance is just slightly behind intel for the OEM and normal consumers its the performance they can deliver for a price point that matters.
It will be a big win for AMD thats for sure.

ah ok pete thx, i get a better picture in me mind about it now

[ShrimpBrime offline]

Jim Keller can design a very nice chip. This it'self should bring a little higher hopes for a guy like you ozz. It does for me! This guy is a wiz. If any one can design a fast processor, it would be Jim.

But 400$ or 500$ is way out of my price range. Hardly need more than 4 threads myself actually. Don't need DDR4 while my DDR3 runs 2800mhz daily. 16 threads is way over kill for most GP also. So those bigger chips at that high of a price may not sell particularly well. It's just not going to be in public's interest just after spending the years savings on Christmas, but then again Income tax time is right around the corner and could turn that thought around, so it could become a well played move......

250$ is all I look to spend on an AMD cpu. Most of their flagship processors in the past was about this price. The FX-8150 was around 250$ msrp. The FX-8350 which is faster and has better steppings was under 200$ at release. The Phenom II 940BE was 275$ msrp The Phenom II 965BE was also under 200$ at release msrp.

Not sure why people would think that these will sell at such a high price like 500$ or even 400$.

So from a business stand point....

Sell fewer for a higher dollar, or sell more product at a lower number.

1 dollar pet rock sold 1 million rocks for a dollar each. That makes you a millionaire. Sell Half million at 2 dollars, still a millionaire!

Prefer to see that lower price and put the product into more homes rather than trying to have the same profit and have half as many of the product in homes.

[ozz]

what im gunna do is stick to me apus, theyre tough, reliable and clock well, i ll wait n see what the zen does b4 i make any decision, like all are gunna do i think, no way im spendin money on a non proved anything, least apus, fx, phenoms are proved to be what they are, zen, well that remains to be seen and im sure there'll be close eyes watching

[Macsbeach98]

One thing that amazes me with the modern CPU weather its AMD or Intel is the complexity and manufacture of them.
Take the 4790k for example it has a transistor count of 1.4 billion built on a 22nm process the actual die is about 1 centimetre wide by 2 centimetre long.
Think of 22nm for a second 1 micrometer is 1/1000th of a millimeter, 1 Nanometer is 1/1000 of a micrometer and they are working in 22 nanometer lithography (smaller than the human eye can see) to laydown 1.4 billion transistors and interconnects.
Skylake and Zen are smaller built on 14nm technology.
To mass produce them and they work faultlessly is a miracle in itself.
It is a marvel of modern technology.

[ozz]

well whoever designs this stuff to work and be produced are smart people, regardless whether theyre a dog of a cpu, gpu, ram whatever, amd or intel, i take me hat off to em all, you blokes think back to when computers then internet first started and ill bet my nuts you said this is amazing, look at it now , the world cant operate without it

[Vinster]

Dec 10, 2016 1:43:56 GMT -5 ShrimpBrime offline said:

Jim Keller can design a very nice chip. This it'self should bring a little higher hopes for a guy like you ozz. It does for me! This guy is a wiz. If any one can design a fast processor, it would be Jim.

But 400$ or 500$ is way out of my price range. Hardly need more than 4 threads myself actually. Don't need DDR4 while my DDR3 runs 2800mhz daily. 16 threads is way over kill for most GP also. So those bigger chips at that high of a price may not sell particularly well. It's just not going to be in public's interest just after spending the years savings on Christmas, but then again Income tax time is right around the corner and could turn that thought around, so it could become a well played move......

250$ is all I look to spend on an AMD cpu. Most of their flagship processors in the past was about this price. The FX-8150 was around 250$ msrp. The FX-8350 which is faster and has better steppings was under 200$ at release. The Phenom II 940BE was 275$ msrp The Phenom II 965BE was also under 200$ at release msrp.

Not sure why people would think that these will sell at such a high price like 500$ or even 400$.

So from a business stand point....

Sell fewer for a higher dollar, or sell more product at a lower number.

1 dollar pet rock sold 1 million rocks for a dollar each. That makes you a millionaire. Sell Half million at 2 dollars, still a millionaire!

Prefer to see that lower price and put the product into more homes rather than trying to have the same profit and have half as many of the product in homes.

That would put you in the R3 CPU that they are launching and read that it was going to be a $150 CPU wasn't it?

Vin

[ShrimpBrime]

No that puts me into a 4690K (which I already has) and no real reason to buy Into Zen other than the want to factor.

[Shadyreaper]

I have no need for any CPU I just got my 5820k in march the only CPU upgrade I would be making would be to a 5960x if Zen pushes the prices down if not I will be sticking with my 5820k its a beast as is I dont really need the extra PCIe lanes as I dont run 4 way sli 2-3 way is fine for me (2 way atm) I am just looking for prices to change I dont wanna see it be another GTX 1080 launch with prices all over the freaking place

[mistone]

watching right now

[Vinster]

I'm going to. Miss it

Hope I can catch it later.

Vin