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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 2, 2021 0:06:30 GMT -5
OK, it's running.
But I need a little help.
To play with it, I installed Gigabyte Cloud OC. I can remotely OC the board which is some fancy shit. In the end, I won't use this utility, please advise the best software for windows OC.
Have installed RealTemp. It looks pretty accurate. In bios 10c, in windows 20c core 0 is the hottest.
Overclock so far is 147x21 -
The board gives me only up to 22x, so it's set. But CPU-Z reports 21X. I assume the 21X is locked and 22 and 23 are turbo multipliers. 23 doesn't even show up on the list. 3086mhz at 1.280v (I have no clue the voltage scaling.)
In bios the QPI looks double that of what CPU-Z reports. Is this similar to DDR, I have to multiply by 2 for actual frequency? According to bios, it's over 5ghz.
Having fun here, but need some serious information. I want to say I'm half way lost between Gigabyte's bios layout and why I can't just throw frequency at this thing. This is going to be one of those slowly overclock up the ladder type deals isn't it?? lol.
And lastly temps and voltages. Rough figures for any frequency expectations on an average chip is fine, I'll play from there.
When benching this thing, say PiMod, dual or triple channel. Or kindly list Memory frequency and channel use for certain benches. Will be sticking to 2D benching on this platform. I'd like to get the most I can from it. Even if it means a future dip in LN2.
Any figures you give me, can be expected on sub ambient cooling or colder.
And lastly, these are soldered right? If I de-lid, do I need to remove the retention bracket or can I just plate it up. (probably for LN use)
thoughts, ideas comments are ALL welcome. Paragraphs and story time welcome.  |
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Post by ground on Feb 2, 2021 4:32:43 GMT -5
OK, it's running. But I need a little help.
Sure, lets see if I can be of any help. To play with it, I installed Gigabyte Cloud OC. I can remotely OC the board which is some fancy shit. In the end, I won't use this utility, please advise the best software for windows OC.
Have installed RealTemp. It looks pretty accurate. In bios 10c, in windows 20c core 0 is the hottest. In practice, all I ever use in-OS on x58 is cpu-tweaker (memory timings) an setfsb (should ics9lprs918bkl if I remember right). Temps sound good. Overclock so far is 147x21 -
The board gives me only up to 22x, so it's set. But CPU-Z reports 21X. I assume the 21X is locked and 22 and 23 are turbo multipliers. 23 doesn't even show up on the list. 3086mhz at 1.280v (I have no clue the voltage scaling.)
so, Nehalem chips have 2 turbo multis. In case with the 930, thats 22x and 23x. The highest typically only applies in 1c operation, which usually isn't worth the hassle. 22x can be applied if the turbo current limit isn't exceeded. I remember there being a way to disable the turbo current limit on gigabyte as well, but I'm not sure how exactly anymore. Might be something with C-states? (I only use Gigabyte with unlocked chips myself). However, due to these Chips (especially Nehalem) running best with odd multipliers, I really wouldn't worry about it in this case. In bios the QPI looks double that of what CPU-Z reports. Is this similar to DDR, I have to multiply by 2 for actual frequency? According to bios, it's over 5ghz.
That is correct behavior, expect QPI to top out around 8GHz. There are some boards that can do more (I've had 3 that could do beyond 8 with relative ease. R2E that did 8600ish, R3E that does 8700ish and an R3BE that did 9000 flat but walled over that), but I wouldn't expect it. Having fun here, but need some serious information. I want to say I'm half way lost between Gigabyte's bios layout and why I can't just throw frequency at this thing. This is going to be one of those slowly overclock up the ladder type deals isn't it?? lol. Look at how long my BCLK thread has been going  And lastly temps and voltages. Rough figures for any frequency expectations on an average chip is fine, I'll play from there. My typical goal for binning Nehalem chips is really high due to the quantity I've gone through and my general targets (I aim for > 5.5 GHz Superpi 32M on LN2 or Cascade). My best chips during ambient pretesting tend to run ~4500 2c/2t Superpi 32M around 1.2V. This is far above the average; the majority of chips I've had were around or over 1.4V for this setting and some even behind that. Typically air testing doesn't translate 1:1 to cold but I seem to have found a range of chips that seems to. Voltages - You'll hit a scaling wall between 1.5 and 1.6V (both with vcore and vtt) on most Nehalems; there is little possible to break through it, even on Ln2 some chips just refuse to scale higher. I am almost certain that its nearly impossible to kill a nehalem chip on ambient at volts where it still scales and is still coolable. I've pushed 1.9V through a reject chip and it didn't have any issues afterwards either. Temps I'd try staying below 80°C if possible. When benching this thing, say PiMod, dual or triple channel. Or kindly list Memory frequency and channel use for certain benches. Will be sticking to 2D benching on this platform. I'd like to get the most I can from it. Even if it means a future dip in LN2.
Triple channel all the way. I aim for 1950-2200 at 6-7-5 or 7-7-6 timings using Elpida Hyper; PSC and other ICs can also be used. You'll probably stumble upon some threads warning you from going beyond 0.5V difference between VTT and Vdimm, as far as I can tell its nearly impossible to damage a CPU this way, or rather, I've never managed it, and I've far exceeded this limit (2.3V Vdimm, 1.3V VTT ) I'll try again today to finally break a CPU with vdimm though - I have a bloodrage here which goes all the way to 2.9V Vdimm. It seems like some chips behave a lot better if you stay within this limit though that varies chip to chip. Also, do not forget about the importance of Uncore clock - its typically a bit behind core on scaling, but having it clocked up is often quite helpful. Any figures you give me, can be expected on sub ambient cooling or colder.
Bloomfield can be quite hard to push on cold, and often disappointing. I've had some chips that simply refused scaling at all - worst was a W3520 that I had binned from a lot of 20 that was doing 4500/1.28V on air, yet refused to run 5000 on cold at all - because it hard a hard scaling wall at 1.48V (also, no cold scaling on that chip since you typically gain 100Mhz/0.04V anyways on these chips, though some can be stronger) And lastly, these are soldered right? If I de-lid, do I need to remove the retention bracket or can I just plate it up. (probably for LN use) thoughts, ideas comments are ALL welcome. Paragraphs and story time welcome. They are soldered and not worth the hassle for delid. My golden 920 (the one Luumi ran) isn't even delidded. If you wanna improve thermals, lapping the IHS is a far more worthwhile venture. |
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Post by Aleslammer on Feb 2, 2021 7:12:15 GMT -5
ground, Thanks, I've read whole threads on some sites that don't have the info you've got in one post.
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Post by ground on Feb 2, 2021 7:36:45 GMT -5
ground , Thanks, I've read whole threads on some sites that don't have the info you've got in one post. Oh you won't believe through how many threads I've read at this point  |
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 2, 2021 10:03:48 GMT -5
Ground, thank you very much. I've read portions of your thread, but hardly paid a lot of attention simply because I've never had the platform to play with.
So I will visit your thread quite often from here.
Thank you for all this information.
------
I quickly hit BSOD at 149mhz which was a mere 3.4ghz or something around there and bios will post in safe mode if I try to boot that frequency through bios.
Clearly, I have quite a bit of learning to do.
Again thank you all. Please drop any info, links to specific posts or threads, I'll gladly take the time to read them.
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Post by ground on Feb 2, 2021 10:13:49 GMT -5
Ground, thank you very much. I've read portions of your thread, but hardly paid a lot of attention simply because I've never had the platform to play with. So I will visit your thread quite often from here. Thank you for all this information. ------ I quickly hit BSOD at 149mhz which was a mere 3.4ghz or something around there and bios will post in safe mode if I try to boot that frequency through bios. Clearly, I have quite a bit of learning to do. Again thank you all. Please drop any info, links to specific posts or threads, I'll gladly take the time to read them. I can grab a 920 from my collection later and see what it takes for 200x21 on x58a-oc which should have same bios layout as ud3r. Will share bios setting then! |
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 2, 2021 11:24:20 GMT -5
Ground, thank you very much. I've read portions of your thread, but hardly paid a lot of attention simply because I've never had the platform to play with. So I will visit your thread quite often from here. Thank you for all this information. ------ I quickly hit BSOD at 149mhz which was a mere 3.4ghz or something around there and bios will post in safe mode if I try to boot that frequency through bios. Clearly, I have quite a bit of learning to do. Again thank you all. Please drop any info, links to specific posts or threads, I'll gladly take the time to read them. I can grab a 920 from my collection later and see what it takes for 200x21 on x58a-oc which should have same bios layout as ud3r. Will share bios setting then! You are awesome. Thank you. |
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Post by freeagent on Feb 2, 2021 13:01:18 GMT -5
Sorry man, the only quad I had for 1366 was a 965XE E.S. After that had a 970, then x5690 E.S. If you are in the market for a Xeon look for a good W series, that way you can play with fast ram. With X series something that can run tight is best because you wont be getting much over 1000MHz with any sticks. W series and Gulftown let you use fast ram. But if you can run Cas 6 quickly your in good shape, even cas 7 if you can run fast enough.
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 2, 2021 13:40:47 GMT -5
Sorry man, the only quad I had for 1366 was a 965XE E.S. After that had a 970, then x5690 E.S. If you are in the market for a Xeon look for a good W series, that way you can play with fast ram. With X series something that can run tight is best because you wont be getting much over 1000MHz with any sticks. W series and Gulftown let you use fast ram. But if you can run Cas 6 quickly your in good shape, even cas 7 if you can run fast enough. I do have a couple xeon processors. I'll get there eventually. Still working on memory divider, I have it lowered for redundancy. I was thinking Cas 9 at 2200mhz or faster? Something I aimed with AMD ddr3 setups. Long road ahead with this platform. Seems more complicated than it is I'm thinking. |
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Post by freeagent on Feb 2, 2021 13:55:31 GMT -5
I know it can handle 2200, C9 would be up to the sticks, I don't see why not though. I made it there once with some XPG 2200s but I don't recall the exact timings.. Possibly 9-10-9 I had set, maybe a tad looser.. Im thinking back to my 970 now so 2009 or so.. could have been 1150 9-11-9 @ 1.725 ish..
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Post by Mr.Scott on Feb 2, 2021 15:56:26 GMT -5
Ground is the X58 king. You are in good hands. |
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Post by ground on Feb 2, 2021 16:26:21 GMT -5
I can grab a 920 from my collection later and see what it takes for 200x21 on x58a-oc which should have same bios layout as ud3r. Will share bios setting then! You are awesome. Thank you. x58a-oc might have died on shelf, hope I can get it back up and running soon. Gave it a proper clean, will test it again tomorrow... |
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 2, 2021 16:28:56 GMT -5
You are awesome. Thank you. x58a-oc might have died on shelf, hope I can get it back up and running soon. Gave it a proper clean, will test it again tomorrow... Check the cmos battery. That was seemingly the issue I had, but I did swap to 930 and gtx 760 at the same time just in case plus a good clear cmos. |
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Post by ground on Feb 2, 2021 16:47:57 GMT -5
x58a-oc might have died on shelf, hope I can get it back up and running soon. Gave it a proper clean, will test it again tomorrow... Check the cmos battery. That was seemingly the issue I had, but I did swap to 930 and gtx 760 at the same time just in case plus a good clear cmos. I never run with a cmos battery for that reason |
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 2, 2021 17:25:17 GMT -5
Check the cmos battery. That was seemingly the issue I had, but I did swap to 930 and gtx 760 at the same time just in case plus a good clear cmos. I never run with a cmos battery for that reason Some boards you have no choice. Just like the clear cmos jumper needs to be in the "run" position on my Abit board. Otherwise, no post. |
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 2, 2021 23:19:29 GMT -5
Well I figured out the cpu. It just wants mad v-core. HAHA! Fine fucker 3.5ghz 1.504v input to bios 1.524v. Temp 10c/31c
I'll just keep hammering v-core then. Right gotcha. I'll keep pushing
Tricky little board. Has it's quirks with being at a low volt for w/e frequency.
But here so far about 400mhz faster than yesterday, literally everything on auto except v-core and bus clocks.
Will try and build a final overclock adjacent to what the board runs and I'll tweak minor things until I get the hang of it.
After some great deal of time george I may apply some of your knowledge and go much colder, your cold bug temps are very good to know.
Oh, and NVM the single channel. The other stick is still on another motherboard. I'll dig it out at some point.
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Post by ground on Feb 3, 2021 4:47:48 GMT -5
I never run with a cmos battery for that reason Some boards you have no choice. Just like the clear cmos jumper needs to be in the "run" position on my Abit board. Otherwise, no post. It ran fine for years without a cmos battery its not gonna suddenly need one But luckily the proper clean (as in: douse in roughly half a can of contact cleaner and let dry) was enough to bring it back Hope I can get to 21x200 settings with a 920 or similar today... If you wanna run fast mem, the x56xx xeons are typically fine up to ~1150 MHz; they are typically limited by BCLK except the strongest chips for BCLK (my E5649 that does 269 BCLK on air still runs benches up to around 1250MHz). However, W3670, W3680 and W3690 are special and more like their i7 counterparts as such that their memory is not locked to 10x or even lower; getting over 1200 MHz is however no easy feat (my W3680 is special in that sense, since it seemingly has no issues running >1300 on DR, >1400 on SR in triple channel and >1600 in single channel, but thats my best IMC out of many many chips I tested). 45nm can also have really strong IMCs, but most chips are limited by the uncore limitations (since you need to run 1:2 on them while 2:3 is possible on 32nm). My 920 and W3520 are the exceptions there since they can easily run 5500+ on uncore on cold which allows much higher memory clocks (I've ran up to 1300 32M on my 920 on cascade). more later  |
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 3, 2021 23:22:25 GMT -5
Finally. Got it figured out. This board is strange in a way I've seen maybe once or twice before.
In order for this thing to actually post windows instead of just restart, I found to enter bios again after F10 save settings, to shut down and cold start it. Boom, overclock applied post windows. But for some reason changing the v-core higher each time without a cold start also would post windows.
Then, I have this thing. Windows gives me 2GB of RAM only. 3 sticks makes it restart or no post. So I have been running 2 sticks dual channel. Not sure why, not totally concerned about it. Probably from running a 32 bit OS I gather. Even though set 3.5gb max memory, still always 2000mb. lol. So the board fucketh with me. The above happens on 3 different kits of memory. Right now Viper Xtr3m3 2000mhz. The IMC ain't havin none of that lol.
Ah well. Shrimp Hit's 4ghz club 1366
Oh and I haven't gotten under 10 seconds PiMod 1M yet either. XD
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 3, 2021 23:45:36 GMT -5
And the 400mhz jump after I found out the board's silly quirk.
Weee Look at it fly boys! 4400mhz! Fuck yeah! Thank you ground for your help and pointers. I can now apply them
All services, posting from the machine, seems very stable. Not gonna lie, I think it wants to go more!
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Post by ground on Feb 4, 2021 8:38:13 GMT -5
Congrats!
If you wanna check once booted if all your memory is detected correctly, CPU-Tweaker is the way to go. Though I think Gigabyte is smarter then asus as in they refuse booting after dropping channels while asus just ignores the dropped sticks and boots up, so sometimes you boot and notice you only have 1 channel active. CPUz is not a reliable readout, though sometimes it can detect dropped channels.
if you have dropped channels, reseat CPU and memory a couple times, it'll usually work after a couple tries (unless the board really doesn't like you, my R3E always needs to reboot 4 times to train the outermost channel, which also clocks about 150Mhz worse then the inner ones)
If you get stuck at 221 BCLK, turn up PCIe clock a bit (minimum BCLK*0.45, though more doesn't hurt) (though don't expect absurd scaling since bloomfield typically walls on ambient in the 215-230 BCLK range; my best Bloomfield did 238 on air, though scaling will already be noticable on water)
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 4, 2021 9:30:31 GMT -5
Not sure about the channels as much as the 1.5gb of memory missing on the 32bit W7 operating system. I'm certain the hardware is fine. So a heads up. I'm running Pata IDE actually. On top of that, I dont want to reseat the cpu a bunch of times. Its lidless and running direct die sub ambient water cooling, geothermal. Can probably handle 1.7v on 2 cores. This chip likes vcore. 1.650v is no issue rounding up to 4.6ghz. Will keep cranking on it. Still have a lot of tweaking to do. |
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Post by freeagent on Feb 4, 2021 9:35:04 GMT -5
Nice job buddy!
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 4, 2021 10:07:44 GMT -5
I can only thank and give you guys credit for all the help so far. Once I get the Cpu frequency near the top of it's capability, I will be reading heavily ground's thread (again, yes have read it through and through already once) and applying everything I can and go from there. The last screen shot, pretty much everything on auto except the memory divider and v-core + bus clocks. If you see anything that stands out that could use change, do indeed say something. The more angles I get to work with the better. |
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Post by freeagent on Feb 4, 2021 20:46:14 GMT -5
I can only thank and give you guys credit for all the help so far. Once I get the Cpu frequency near the top of it's capability, I will be reading heavily ground's thread (again, yes have read it through and through already once) and applying everything I can and go from there. The last screen shot, pretty much everything on auto except the memory divider and v-core + bus clocks. If you see anything that stands out that could use change, do indeed say something. The more angles I get to work with the better. Just off the top of my head QPI look a bit low? I like to run it higher, but maybe its a bug Also Trfc looks pretty high, should be about half or so? Other than that looks ok so far! Jo0 wanna keep that Qpi and uncore high mang  |
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 4, 2021 21:24:36 GMT -5
I can only thank and give you guys credit for all the help so far. Once I get the Cpu frequency near the top of it's capability, I will be reading heavily ground's thread (again, yes have read it through and through already once) and applying everything I can and go from there. The last screen shot, pretty much everything on auto except the memory divider and v-core + bus clocks. If you see anything that stands out that could use change, do indeed say something. The more angles I get to work with the better. Just off the top of my head QPI look a bit low? I like to run it higher, but maybe its a bug Also Trfc looks pretty high, should be about half or so? Other than that looks ok so far! Jo0 wanna keep that Qpi and uncore high mang OK I'll work on those for sure. I think it's in slow mode. Seems moar stable? 210mhz top frequency. Real sketchy. Really likes a lot of v-core. 1.7+v is ok? lol. Load temp 55c. |
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Post by freeagent on Feb 4, 2021 21:52:23 GMT -5
You are probably right.. I didn't use slow mode because I usually had the multi available. I might have used it once with my X5690, but it is an earlier ES I think so its kinda funny sometimes if you know what I mean.. Lol.. I bet its a bit sketchy To me 1.7 sounds like a lot, but its 45nm, my 32nm is a pig too and likes 1.6 so I wouldn't put it past it lol. 55c is pretty sick though.. My 965XE ES was a C0 and not as nice as yours, I think 4300 was all she had.. possibly with HT off. Good with memory though.. I sold it to buy the 970 I think.. wish I kept it. I got it from Mia I think. Traded a 4GHz Q6600 and some greenbacks. That Q6600 had an interesting story too. I got it from a guy at OCF on the folding team, he won it in a contest from Intel IIRC. It was a sick CPU and pretty much did 4GHz with close to stock volts, the downside was it ran sooo hot. It was uncontrollable with air cooling. Scuse the ramble been into that hippy lettuce a bit too much today |
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 5, 2021 8:02:19 GMT -5
You are probably right.. I didn't use slow mode because I usually had the multi available. I might have used it once with my X5690, but it is an earlier ES I think so its kinda funny sometimes if you know what I mean.. Lol.. I bet its a bit sketchy To me 1.7 sounds like a lot, but its 45nm, my 32nm is a pig too and likes 1.6 so I wouldn't put it past it lol. 55c is pretty sick though.. My 965XE ES was a C0 and not as nice as yours, I think 4300 was all she had.. possibly with HT off. Good with memory though.. I sold it to buy the 970 I think.. wish I kept it. I got it from Mia I think. Traded a 4GHz Q6600 and some greenbacks. That Q6600 had an interesting story too. I got it from a guy at OCF on the folding team, he won it in a contest from Intel IIRC. It was a sick CPU and pretty much did 4GHz with close to stock volts, the downside was it ran sooo hot. It was uncontrollable with air cooling. Scuse the ramble been into that hippy lettuce a bit too much today No no, that's ok. Ramble as much as needed, I like the stories. Helps me get an understanding where I should, could, or would be. So I de-lidded the Chip and removed the socket retention bracket. That probably helps my temps quite a bit removing the copper plate. Didn't get much more so, had to hang it up early to push snow. I'll be hammering some more on it today hopefully. |
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Post by freeagent on Feb 5, 2021 13:50:00 GMT -5
That's pretty hardcore man! I've never done anything like that before.. sounds like it could be fun if you don't F it up How do you like X58? Its not too bad eh? |
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Feb 5, 2021 17:21:01 GMT -5
That's pretty hardcore man! I've never done anything like that before.. sounds like it could be fun if you don't F it up How do you like X58? Its not too bad eh? Well yeah, it's not too bad. I'm learning |
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Post by freeagent on Feb 5, 2021 19:29:35 GMT -5
That's pretty hardcore man! I've never done anything like that before.. sounds like it could be fun if you don't F it up How do you like X58? Its not too bad eh? Well yeah, it's not too bad. I'm learning So am I buddy, always learning.. |
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