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Post by osmiumoc on Dec 1, 2019 1:38:53 GMT -5
I´m planning to set up a solid GPU-bench system some time next year. I´d like to throw cards at it from 8800GTX era up to most recent stuff if possible.
My question is, where does thread count scaling start to bite the tail of frequency scaling for the CPU on the 3D-benchmarks like 3D-Mark?
As in, would you rather go for a high core-count like the 9980XE but settle for a couple 100MHz less frequency or go 8c/16T for maximum clocks? I think there might be a sweetspot somewhere between these, I´m most likely to stay with water on the CPU 90% of the time. At most DICE, so I won´t be able to push an 18c monster as high as an 8c chip.
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Post by Vinster on Dec 1, 2019 2:54:49 GMT -5
in that era I'd think clocks would be king... others better than me can confirm?
Vin
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Post by Mr.Scott on Dec 1, 2019 8:31:56 GMT -5
Indeed, clock speed is more important than core count on the legacy benches up to and including 3D06 and Aquamark. 2 fast cores is plenty for those. Most of the newer benchs like 4 cores and clockspeed is still king. Any bench that uses a Physx or AVX score in the calculation will like as many cores as you can give it along with decent clockspeed.
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Post by Shadyreaper on Dec 1, 2019 10:07:48 GMT -5
Vantage = 16c/16t but also scales with clock speed Timespy 16c/16t Timespy extreme as many cores as you can throw at it lol Firestrike and those are all clock speed related up to 12c/12t I believe may only be 8c/8t Everything else is basically 4c/4t So for legacy benching z370/390 is the way to go
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Post by georgekokovinis on Dec 1, 2019 10:28:31 GMT -5
Firestrike, Firestrike Extreme, Firestrike Ultra need HT enabled at 16/32 and 18/36.
Also Vantage loves memory speed and tight timings. Best results with 4080 ( quad ) 12-11-11-28-1T tight. Vantage LOD is around +5.
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Post by osmiumoc on Dec 1, 2019 19:09:31 GMT -5
Thank you all for the input! So for the legacy benchmarks I´m going to be fine with fewer cores and focus on high frequency while the more recent 3D-mark-Firestrike etc. will profit from a high core/thread count too.
And memory speed is important, but I had already planned to get a decent kit. Question is if I will be able to find a pre-binned IMC or if I´ll just try my luck.
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Post by Shadyreaper on Dec 1, 2019 22:15:09 GMT -5
Firestrike is a 1080p bench it's going to scale with clock speed Firestrike extreme is 1440p less stress on CPU clocks and more GPU intense Firestrike ultra is 4k bench so clock speed means very little and and is the most GPU intense why you should use big core CPU for CPU score
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Post by georgekokovinis on Dec 2, 2019 6:41:41 GMT -5
Vantage = 16c/16t but also scales with clock speed Timespy 16c/16t Timespy extreme as many cores as you can throw at it lol Firestrike and those are all clock speed related up to 12c/12t I believe may only be 8c/8t Everything else is basically 4c/4t So for legacy benching z370/390 is the way to go
Firestrike - 1080P.
System - My Daily with Windows 10 1909 optimized for stability only.
Asus rampage VI Extreme I9-7960X at 4.7ghz ( can go 5.0ghz on water, but it is only for comparison ) 32gb Galax memory 17-18-18-38-1T at 4000. MSI GTX 1080 Ti Lightning Z, overclocked for the 2 runs at 2088 core.
No changes - ANY - between the 2 runs. One ( the higher score is with HT on and the lower is with HT off ).
More than 1000 points of difference.
So, HT must be on, even for 1080P, when running many cores. All firestrike versions and TimeSpy.
Only Vantage scales a lot better with HT off.
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Post by Shadyreaper on Dec 2, 2019 16:15:51 GMT -5
one on left is at 5ghz the one on the right is at 5.3ghz CPU speed look at the GPU score and tell me that CPU clock doesnt scale the GPU score My only point was clock speed also matters with 1080p firestrike
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 2, 2019 23:56:25 GMT -5
Vantage = 16c/16t but also scales with clock speed Timespy 16c/16t Timespy extreme as many cores as you can throw at it lol Firestrike and those are all clock speed related up to 12c/12t I believe may only be 8c/8t Everything else is basically 4c/4t So for legacy benching z370/390 is the way to go
Only Vantage scales a lot better with HT off.
3DMark06 too.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 4:46:35 GMT -5
Hmm timespy. What a pain Tried that today. You can get it going 4GB maxmem ... but you need serious attention gpu mem clocks. If that is out even 5mhz hurts score. And I mean 100+ to scores in my testing
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Post by alpi on Dec 14, 2019 3:06:28 GMT -5
World is changing ! An old pal knocking on the door and we should let him in (Or more like Her ) I think ! (absolutely untweaked run. Let everything untouched. Only the hw has my fingerprints !!)
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Post by Vinster on Dec 14, 2019 16:11:55 GMT -5
CPU score is higher than the GPU score, I don't think I've ever seen that
Vin
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Post by Shadyreaper on Dec 14, 2019 20:26:56 GMT -5
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Post by alpi on Dec 14, 2019 21:11:46 GMT -5
Nice result ! I guess You can do around this level with an Xoc-ed Zen2. Maybe cpu score couldnt be pushed just as high but I was fully amazed how good the gpu load was today so there shouldnt be big diff. But ofc thats just a tip. Never seen any ln2 cooled Am4 based legacy 3dMark . Till ! But I'm sure time is here for the first explorers to take those first steps ! (Since Phenom II's every newer type of Amd cpu been mentionable worse and worse for those 3D's so its asome kind of magical return even if Intel turn to be a little still better.) Bloody steps from Amd in the last 2-3 years ! The thing, Intel unlikely Amd, completely stucked at a place or take small steps but the wrong way made the catching up (and the overtake ) of Amd much more strict but it was definitely awesome not matter how we take it. "CPU score is higher than the GPU score, I don't think I've ever seen that" Just because You never were so seriously bored like me : hwbot.org/submission/2814919_alpi_3dmark_vantage___performance_geforce_210_(ddr3_64bit_gt218)_1607_marks:DDDDDD
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Post by Vinster on Dec 14, 2019 21:36:26 GMT -5
lol, ok... with a GT210.. ok... but that's with 980Ti's... those are no slouch
Vin
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 14, 2019 21:39:29 GMT -5
Nice result ! I guess You can do around this level with an Xoc-ed Zen2. Maybe cpu score couldnt be pushed just as high but I was fully amazed how good the gpu load was today so there shouldnt be big diff. But ofc thats just a tip. Never seen any ln2 cooled Am4 based legacy 3dMark . Till ! But I'm sure time is here for the first explorers to take those first steps ! (Since Phenom II's every newer type of Amd cpu been mentionable worse and worse for those 3D's so its asome kind of magical return even if Intel turn to be a little still better.) Bloody steps from Amd in the last 2-3 years ! The thing, Intel unlikely Amd, completely stucked at a place or take small steps but the wrong way made the catching up (and the overtake ) of Amd much more strict but it was definitely awesome not matter how we take it. "CPU score is higher than the GPU score, I don't think I've ever seen that" Just because You never were so seriously bored like me : hwbot.org/submission/2814919_alpi_3dmark_vantage___performance_geforce_210_(ddr3_64bit_gt218)_1607_marks:DDDDDD Nice first place submission there!!
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Post by alpi on Dec 14, 2019 22:37:16 GMT -5
Seen like the 3D06 cpu test just much longer. Was close to turn out from fps to spf.
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bilko
Regular Member
Posts: 21
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Post by bilko on Dec 14, 2019 22:55:11 GMT -5
Nice result ! I guess You can do around this level with an Xoc-ed Zen2. Maybe cpu score couldnt be pushed just as high but I was fully amazed how good the gpu load was today so there shouldnt be big diff. But ofc thats just a tip. Never seen any ln2 cooled Am4 based legacy 3dMark . Till ! But I'm sure time is here for the first explorers to take those first steps ! (Since Phenom II's every newer type of Amd cpu been mentionable worse and worse for those 3D's so its asome kind of magical return even if Intel turn to be a little still better.) Bloody steps from Amd in the last 2-3 years ! The thing, Intel unlikely Amd, completely stucked at a place or take small steps but the wrong way made the catching up (and the overtake ) of Amd much more strict but it was definitely awesome not matter how we take it. "CPU score is higher than the GPU score, I don't think I've ever seen that" Just because You never were so seriously bored like me : hwbot.org/submission/2814919_alpi_3dmark_vantage___performance_geforce_210_(ddr3_64bit_gt218)_1607_marks:DDDDDD Not LN2 but I did do a run on SS hwbot.org/submission/4278365Effi could always be better but it was a nice starting point since as you said there's very few Ryzen results on the older benches.
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 14, 2019 23:49:56 GMT -5
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Post by alpi on Dec 15, 2019 7:58:19 GMT -5
Ok, You are the winner ! Above 1 sec per frame in all the stages !
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Post by Shadyreaper on Dec 15, 2019 9:16:27 GMT -5
AMD is doing good right now especially in HEDT area they have come a long way hopefully Intel will get their heads out their asses and drop some 10nm and 7nm this should push Intel tho
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 15, 2019 12:47:31 GMT -5
Ok, You are the winner ! Above 1 sec per frame in all the stages ! Haha look, dual socket 940 onboard Ati Rage K8NDr.DRE! Look ATI Rage XL Dual Opty Egypt 875 x2 chips!! 3DMark05 - Killer score!!
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Post by osmiumoc on Dec 16, 2019 15:35:02 GMT -5
Huh so I could also consider going for Zen 2 instead of Intel. And I still thought intel was a must for 3D-benches.
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Post by Shadyreaper on Dec 16, 2019 15:49:56 GMT -5
Huh so I could also consider going for Zen 2 instead of Intel. And I still thought intel was a must for 3D-benches. I wouldn't say that as 3Dmark is still partial to Intel i.e Firestrike timespy all those TR might be good for Timespy extreme since it has so many more cores
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Post by georgekokovinis on Dec 16, 2019 16:48:12 GMT -5
Huh so I could also consider going for Zen 2 instead of Intel. And I still thought intel was a must for 3D-benches. I wouldn't say that as 3Dmark is still partial to Intel i.e Firestrike timespy all those TR might be good for Timespy extreme since it has so many more cores You are very polite Jason
3D is Intel. Period.
Now, if a specific benchmark could use 32 cores ( 4000 $ ), I strongly doubt that there is someone so insane ( besides AMD's marketing department ) to buy.
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Post by Shadyreaper on Dec 16, 2019 17:14:57 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that as 3Dmark is still partial to Intel i.e Firestrike timespy all those TR might be good for Timespy extreme since it has so many more cores You are very polite Jason
3D is Intel. Period.
Now, if a specific benchmark could use 32 cores ( 4000 $ ), I strongly doubt that there is someone so insane ( besides AMD's marketing department ) to buy.
You can see it in the CPU scores 3900x at same clocks as 9920x you see a big CPU score difference like 2-3k higher with Intel
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Post by alpi on Dec 16, 2019 20:41:03 GMT -5
Huh so I could also consider going for Zen 2 instead of Intel. And I still thought intel was a must for 3D-benches. That was why I wrote my first post. You should know about the B version too. I bought my first Am4 just because of prices, than changed cpus step by step. Now the new Zen's demanding deserved place not for the "price / performance buyers" but more often for pure performance preferrers too. Not a clear line, much slower process but it happening at a very constant way ! Not knowing your pockets size but if You want to spend some modest ammount for that 3d rig, these Ryzens are exisiting options. 3800X's price is very close to what asked for a 8700k for example so price / perf. ratio still very strong on Red side. Ofc if You want to prey in the very top region, Intel still the way but if not the podium aimed, more way could be good in my opinion. Finally there are ! Tr's won't be good for cpu scores but that caused by a unique way of mem management, not affects the Am4, desktop line. Those Tr's has also pretty bad scores on a few 2d benchmarks. Geek4 for example. Hardly can outperform an 8 cored desktop one in multi thread scores.
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Post by osmiumoc on Dec 17, 2019 13:03:53 GMT -5
Well I never wanted to go TR, as they are still less than ideal for 3D-benching. I was just considering the 3800X as a budget alternative. But at the end of the year my calculations add up to a slightly larger budget, since I´ll sell some stuff. So I´m in the 1500$ - 2000$ range for CPU + board. 1500$ if I go LN2 (thanks to Shadyreaper for the PM ). In that range I´ll likely go intel. I won´t be aiming for the podium tho, after all I will need to get used to the new platform first. Still I want to be as competitive as possible. And don´t worry IF I go down the LN2 path I will NOT use the 9980XE for my first steps! I´ll rather practice with what I have until I´m confident I won´t kill something each time I run extreme cooling. By that time there may already be new options available, maybe intel will push something before Q2 2020. I doubt it but I can hope right? ;D
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Post by alpi on Dec 17, 2019 13:32:21 GMT -5
Sounds like a plan ! If You plan ln2, You should pay a bit more attention choosing the board. A good choice would worth a lot ! I'm pretty much not up to date with them but a lot of decent, active and helpful xoc-er here. For ln2, a board can be your best friend and your enemy too.
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