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Post by austin86 on Jul 14, 2023 11:19:10 GMT -5
Hello everyone, so over the last year or so I spend well over 5k on old PC parts 😱 I chose to get back out of building retro PCs.... But as of now I have no retro gaming PC as I'm between builds🤦♂️ So I chose to build one last PC, something simple, something usable an reliable. I also will be keeping my benching setup... I been building up a lot of sk370 chips to bench, can't wait to bench them.
Anyway let get to it.
First off the case. I have two cases on hand and nether are right for the build. One is way to big and one is way to small. I wanted to sell both anyway. So I bought a new one........ Yeah trying to stop sending but I'm still spending.
As you can see the case is rather nice, not quite right for the build but nice none the less. I wanted to get a older silver case but could not find a nice one. I did find a nice deal on a NOS silver stone case, but it was a tick to big for my liking. I'm trying to down size again.
For the core guts I'll be using the fallowing. Abit As8 motherboard.
P4 660, 3.6ghz 2m. 512mb cl2 ddr400. 6800 ultra. voodoo2 SLI or voodoo1 (still looking for the cards) 2 240gb SSDs in raid 1 PSU 🤷♂️, I have a few to pick from and I can't make up my mind.
As for sound cards, I have a audigy 2, but I think I'll swap it with a live and prodigy hd2 or maybe just a good dac with the audigy.
Now for the fun part, the cooling. Over the years I have been building up a collection of old water cooling parts and I have a lot to pick from. I have pumps pumps and more pumps. I have old school multi pass rads, some heater cores and so on. IDK what I will use and what I will sell, but I can say one thing, I have a lot to pick from and will be water cooling the CPU,GPU an likely the chip set too. A lot of what I pick will depend on what I can fit into the case.
Software wise I'll be running 98lite and maybe 2k or XP.
I also have a lot of cable sleaving and other UV stuff I'll be using for the build
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Post by Vinster on Jul 14, 2023 20:28:29 GMT -5
the Case looks clean
Vin
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Post by eidairman1 on Jul 14, 2023 20:55:31 GMT -5
1 day I will have the AXP build in another case along with the FX
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Post by MachineLearning on Jul 15, 2023 23:31:55 GMT -5
That case looks great, I like the sliding mobo tray a lot.
Eager to see how things turn out!
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Post by austin86 on Jul 17, 2023 8:38:33 GMT -5
I thought so too but the seller backed out and I'm stuck with different case.
I have the core hardware and water cooling installed but its running kinda hot, I'm running dual 80mm rads and one is chocked in a 5.25" bay with a 15mm thick fan. I'll have to make some changes with the loop. I might add a 3 80mm rad but that would look funky. I think some mods to the bay rad and a better fan on the 80mm rad in the case will help a lot.
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Post by austin86 on Jul 17, 2023 8:40:16 GMT -5
1 day I will have the AXP build in another case along with the FX I have a fx 5950u, only reason I'm not using it is because I can't find a good block for it. The only block I have that fits it is a mixed metals block.
Its a good card. Hope to see you build someone with a FX card, they're a lot of fun to play with.
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Post by austin86 on Jul 17, 2023 8:44:16 GMT -5
Some other updates, I need to get some UV sata cables and a few other things... Looks like I have a lot of money in rewords points at PPCS lol. I'll use those up.
I ended up picking a PSU too, my old school OZC mod stream PSU.
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Post by Vinster on Jul 17, 2023 11:33:22 GMT -5
What block, pump and tube diameters are you running?
It's only a 115w CPU. Two dual 80mm rads should be able to keep up to that CPU.
Vin
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Post by austin86 on Jul 17, 2023 11:52:57 GMT -5
What block, pump and tube diameters are you running? It's only a 115w CPU. Two dual 80mm rads should be able to keep up to that CPU. Vin The GPU has a MCW82 and the CPU has apogee gtz, 1/4 tubbing, the pump is more or less a low RPM DC-LT, I'm using a evercool wc-202 bay pump/res/rad thingy. I might as well only have one 80mm as the bay one is chocked off. I have some mods planned that might help it. I'm going to get better fans and do some mods to the bay rad thingy. |
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Post by eidairman1 on Jul 17, 2023 22:06:08 GMT -5
1 day I will have the AXP build in another case along with the FX I have a fx 5950u, only reason I'm not using it is because I can't find a good block for it. The only block I have that fits it is a mixed metals block.
Its a good card. Hope to see you build someone with a FX card, they're a lot of fun to play with.
My FX8350 I meant. I have a X1950 Pro for the AXP, I may get a 3850 AGP for it. I dumped NV with the Radeon 9700 Pro, it pissed me off there were no agp gart drivers for nforce 2 on Windows Vista or higher, because Windows 7 ran perfectly smooth on a 7200 HDD. |
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Post by Vinster on Jul 17, 2023 22:10:03 GMT -5
What block, pump and tube diameters are you running? It's only a 115w CPU. Two dual 80mm rads should be able to keep up to that CPU. Vin The GPU has a MCW82 and the CPU has apogee gtz, 1/4 tubbing, the pump is more or less a low RPM DC-LT, I'm using a evercool wc-202 bay pump/res/rad thingy. I might as well only have one 80mm as the bay one is chocked off. I have some mods planned that might help it. I'm going to get better fans and do some mods to the bay rad thingy. ah.. I missed you having the GPU in the loop. ok. that makes sense. I'd think you'd need dual 120 rads for that kind of load. I'd have a rad between each load if possible to balance it out
Vin |
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Post by austin86 on Jul 18, 2023 9:41:19 GMT -5
I was thinking about putting a 120mm in the case, I have room for one if I mod the case. But I don't like the looks of a modern 120mm rad in the case. I was wanting to keep the build old school, TBH I was thinking of swapping the SSDs for early raptor's as it would be more period correct. That and swapping the mcw82 and the GTZ for something older too.
Its worth noting the pump in the WC-202 is not strong at all, IDK if it can take a 120mm added to the loop. I might have to put a different pump in the system if I add a 120mm to the case.
I'm going to see what I can make work.
I'm going to swap the SSDs for early raptor drives.
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Post by austin86 on Jul 19, 2023 8:07:10 GMT -5
well this really sucks, I was testing the system out seeing how hot it was getting, about 60c on both the GPU and CPU with the fans on the lowest speed. But then all of a sudden the system locked up and the motherboard smelled like smoke. Now it will not post or boot or even power on. I was able to test all the parts in a separate system and they all work. So I'll need to get a different motherboard. I'm 50/50 split on getting a second AS8 or using my x48 rampage with something like a 8800.
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Post by Vinster on Jul 19, 2023 22:52:33 GMT -5
^ That's a bummer
Vin
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Post by austin86 on Jul 20, 2023 7:59:32 GMT -5
No kidding, here I was thinking I was going to stop spending and now I need to get a replacement board. IDK what went up in smoke, but the smell is comming form around the winbond chip by the ram.
I bought a replacement board, anther as8 and it should be here ni a week or two
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Post by austin86 on Jul 20, 2023 14:21:59 GMT -5
Ok so here are my plans to make the evercool-202 kit better. Here is the system air cooled with a 5950u i.ibb.co/26T5Wd5/AE9-CEB66-86-DF-4-B0-C-9-FE6-15553-F281728.jpgThat photo will help a lot with understanding what I have to say below. One of the big problems is that the rad inside the 5.25" bay pump/res thingy is unable to get air through it. The problem is that only the top two 5.25 bays can be used, the motherboard gets in the way of the lower too bays. so with rad is shoved up against the cd drive. and the fan has hardly any room to suck air into the rad. And being a retro gaming PC I need a CD drive. Yes there are CD mounting tools but most don't work right with dos games or cd audio so a cd drive is the way to go. My first thought is to get a slim laptop cd drive with a bay adapter. This would free up a good chunk of the 5.25 bay below the wc-202 pump/rad bay thing. the next thought I had was putting a gasket on the 15mm thick 80mm fan on the 5.25 bay rad. there is a small gap between the fan and rad so a lot a air goes around it and out the sides and not through the rad. I might add a vent on the top of the case to bring fresh air into the rad but IDK if I want to do that. The next mod is cutting off the restrictive fan grill on the case for the other 80mm rad and getting a better fan for it. I'll also be putting a gasket on it too, but thats less for cooling and more to help keep the system quiet. And lastly swapping the CPU, I have a 125w P4 660 in the system, I might be able to run a cedarmill CPU CPU or track down a lower TDP Prescott like the 115 or 84w modles. I was going to put a modern 120mm rad in the case, that wold fix all my problems with heat but I don't want to do that. I want to keep the system old school. And anyway 60c with the lower fan speeds is not that bad. |
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Post by austin86 on Jul 24, 2023 10:34:11 GMT -5
Ok I got the fan grills cut out, will post photos latter tonight, I had to use an agle grinder as I did not have any cutting disks for my dremel. I gotten rather good at using a angle grinder in place of a dremel TBH. I also found a better fan that I will use for the 80mm rad. The Delta AUB0812HH, its only 37cfm but its a high presser fan, the 80mm rad I have is a very high FPI rad and kinda tick too. I think that fan will do well, I just need to make sure the fan cooler in the wc-202 cooler can handle it.
I also got two 160gb raptor drives, a slim CD drive and bay caddy, and some fan filters. Should have everything I need for the system now.
Oh and how can I forget, a Pentium 4 661, thats a 84w 65nm Cedar Mill chip, its far cooler, has 64bit support and they tend to OC rather well. IDK if I can get it to work in my board, but I'll try. I saw a veg post from a user on anther site saying that got one to work so I'll try it too.
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Post by george on Jul 24, 2023 11:54:48 GMT -5
Could Win Millennium Edition be an option? My W98 times are long gone. 2k is ok. The challenge with retro builds is to find the right drivers for all stuff. Win XP driver stuff though easier to find. I guess you are familiar with the Vogons site. Have a couple of retro WinXP builds/rigs(midi and full ATX), but they have been sitting cold for a few years.
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Post by austin86 on Jul 24, 2023 13:12:53 GMT -5
Could Win Millennium Edition be an option? My W98 times are long gone. 2k is ok. The challenge with retro builds is to find the right drivers for all stuff. Win XP driver stuff though easier to find. I guess you are familiar with the Vogons site. Have a couple of retro WinXP builds/rigs(midi and full ATX), but they have been sitting cold for a few years.
My main reason for running 98 is to keep dos support. I guess ME could be used and would be more stable, but I rather not lose any dos support. the SB live and audigy dos drivers does not work in real dos mode on boards with ICH5 or newer so I'm limited to the 98's SB emulator. However I am looking at some other once commercial emulating software that might work, however games like blood and mechwarrior 2 will not play all to well in xp regardless.
I never had a problem finding drivers, there are things like this and a lot of driver archive sites too, archive.org is a a lot of help too. vogonsdrivers helps a lot too.
Yes I know of vogons but I rather not go back there. I had more then one beef with dosfreak over his treatment of users with mental heath problems. He tossed a rather nasty fit when I stood up autistic user. He has had more then one beef with me over my dyslexia as well. I have not used the in close to 8 years.
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Post by george on Jul 24, 2023 13:19:38 GMT -5
yes. make a dual boot set to go whichever OS you prefer. Unfortunately, the older OS drivers seem to disappear more and more. Some places just shut down due to "lack" of interest. Or real life came by.
All on its own, but just think of much time you spend on finding a suitable, working driver(search, install, uninstall, redo it again, phew). But of course depends on the rig set up.
And if want to do some DOS stuff for older things, there are emulators.
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Post by austin86 on Jul 24, 2023 13:54:36 GMT -5
All on its own, but just think of much time you spend on finding a suitable, working driver(search, install, uninstall, redo it again, phew). But of course depends on the rig set up.
And if want to do some DOS stuff for older things, there are emulators.
TBH I never once had a problem finding older drivers or taking to much time getting drivers to work. more then anything its 3rd party apps that can be tricky to find, well not so much find, but digging through older versions for one that works on 9x.
"there are emulators." Witch don't work all to well for a lot of the games I play, try playing MW2 mercs or blood at 1600x1200. Dos box just does not handle those two games. |
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Post by george on Jul 24, 2023 15:47:17 GMT -5
yes, when I was a bit younger, I explored all kinds of retro stuff, but surely spent a few moments to find working/compatible stuff, and as I mentioned, depends on what the rig set up is. Have not really used emulators actively myself, tried some to play "retro" games, but the younger have, but reality took over.
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Post by austin86 on Jul 25, 2023 8:09:21 GMT -5
yes, when I was a bit younger, I explored all kinds of retro stuff, but surely spent a few moments to find working/compatible stuff, and as I mentioned, depends on what the rig set up is. Have not really used emulators actively myself, tried some to play "retro" games, but the younger have, but reality took over.
well dos box is good for 99% of games out there and I do like it but most of the dos games I play don't like it. But if anyone needs help finding a old driver let me know. I know a lot of places to get drivers and have a bit of a stash myself.
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Post by austin86 on Jul 25, 2023 8:13:30 GMT -5
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Post by austin86 on Jul 25, 2023 12:03:19 GMT -5
ok so since I'm pushing things with windows 98 and want to tweak it a bit. For starters I use soporific's Unattended Boot CD or UBCD98 2008. This is an updated version of 98 with a lot of patches and a custom installer the aims to fix a lot of problems 98 has on newer hardware. However fixes aside I still need to do a few things to make everything work right. If you want to give UBCD98 2008 a try you can get it off mdgx.com. There also a lot of other tools, tips and other cool retro PC software on the site.
HDD spacefirst thing, the raptors I bought are 160gb, 9x can't (by default) be installed on a partition over 137gb in size and since I'll be running raid-0 I'll be well over 137gb. UBCD98 2008 added a patch for that, but some things still do not work, like disk check and sometimes defrag. The right fix, partition the drive with a partition under 137gb and install 9x to that. I plan to partition out 3 partitions, one for 9x, one for all the apps to be installed to and one for xp/2k. Doing away with CDs Wile 100% doing away with CD's is wishful thinking for a 9x/dos gaming system, however a bulk of games have no problem being ran with daemon tools, The neat thing about daemon tools is that it has a CLI commands so I can make scripts to auto mount and dismount ISO's.
USB flash drive support, daemon tools and 98lite
This is a bad mix of apps, both the USB driver stack update that lets you use plug and play flash drives in 9x and daemon tools need bits that 98lite removes.if you install things in the wrong order it will brick the OS.I forget the order that is needed, but I'll find it out soon enough lol.
Skinning the OS
its a mid 00s gaming PC, it needs a cringy OS setup
themeworld.com/ has a lot of old themes, icons and other stuff that can be used to customize 95-xp.
That voodoo that you do I'd love to put a 6mb voodoo 1 in this system but I don't have one... DGvoodoo will have to do. I never used it before so here's hoping it works well.
Sound in dos games without ISA
That's a hard one, wait no its not. you don't need an ISA sound card for dos games, 9x has a built in SBpro emulator... but that only works for FX and not adlib or midis... well that is where general midi and mpu-401 comes in to play, if a game has general midi or mpu-401 option you can use any modem sound cards midi playback for game music. That is a major step up from OPL midi playback. But I know what about adlib... well I'm looking into emulators but most only support NT and not 9x. VDMSound is a well know emulator and does a good job, but it lacks 9x support. softsystem's soundfx is a lesser known example but it too needs nt4/2k/xp and there is Virtual Sound Blaster too but I never messed with it. I recall there being a 9x port to VDMSound too, I'll have to look into that.
Getting the system online.
INB4 thats not safe... I know I know but its just for DLing patches and stuff off its own subnet.
As I see it I have 3 options, retrozilla, kernelEX with firefox 10ish or webone proxy. all 3 have there pros and cons but I don't want to deal with kernelEX so webone and retrozilla it is.
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Post by austin86 on Jul 26, 2023 9:30:44 GMT -5
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Post by MachineLearning on Jul 26, 2023 11:03:30 GMT -5
That AS8 is one sick board! |
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Post by austin86 on Jul 26, 2023 12:12:00 GMT -5
Thanks! I only wish it was a 875 board and not 865, but 865 is still good too. The dfi 875p-T would be a better board but I don't like its layout of the power connectors that much.
But yeah the AS8 is a nice board, one of my favorites and they tend to be rock solid too.
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Post by george on Jul 26, 2023 19:51:03 GMT -5
Nice! looks like that AS8 have not had many running miles(easy life) behind. Board of that age does not take easy/last on OC, if going that line. But a nice build there.
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Post by austin86 on Jul 27, 2023 8:11:23 GMT -5
Nice! looks like that AS8 have not had many running miles(easy life) behind. Board of that age does not take easy/last on OC, if going that line. But a nice build there. Yeah the replacement AS8 was rather messy and likely saw a lot of use, but I have a dead AS8 to scavenge parts from now. |
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