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Post by scruffy1 on Dec 2, 2022 21:08:10 GMT -5
so, not sure if you people are going to be up on this, but i guess zen2 and ddr4 are now "old school" 
moved up from 2x8gb gskill (F4-3600C16D-16GVK) by adding a further pair, which are considerably newer, but same specs
apart from needing more volts (up from a meagre 1.34 to 1.392 in hw monitor), and some suggested tweaks to get 4 sticks working, they run endless stress testing using tm5, and once booted are stable as a rock. but...
every so often on a cold boot, they fail initial boot and the auto second cycle kicks in fine and into windows; rarely they default to "overclock fail", and a simple reboot from the bios screen and they are good to go at declared speed and timings, even though i believe they should do 16-16-16-32 rather than...36, but i can confirm 32 isn't a happy number to get success
very rarely, they refuse to boot multiple times, and after a little rest, or compete power down, they are back and raging
i would add that they invariably hate being instructed to restart using windows power option, and i don't think they have ever rebooted without a shutdown from that state, but a fresh restart after they have maybe "heated up" on the earlier try seems good, although why a reboot from protracted use isn't warm enough i don't understand
other gear is all well tested and fine :
ryzen 5 3600 @ 4.625 / noctua nh-d15 / msi b450m mortar max / samsung 970 evo plus 500gb nvme / wd 2tb / 4x8gb G.Skill ripjawsV @ 3600 c16 (b-die) /
galax 2060 super / dell u2515h / Lian Li PC-A17B & corsair hx750i & noctua fans
i am not after tweaking the subtimings at this stage, except to invoke the gods of stability at 16-16-16-36 1t at least vdimm it will happily accept
the ram idles at ~ 40c; the sticks are a bit cuddly on the mortar max but 4 slots lined up doesn't make for spacious insertion, and although i may well add another fan over them eventually, i am disinterested in rejigging the case, which is pretty tidy
settings are :
help me, oh learned colleagues!
it still works okay, but i miss just turning it on and being ready to rock every time
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 3, 2022 3:08:31 GMT -5
I guess if it gains stability, in some cases it does, run them at 2T command rate.
You can also try disabling "power down mode" in the memory timings menu.
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Post by georgekokovinis on Dec 3, 2022 4:22:55 GMT -5
I guess if it gains stability, in some cases it does, run them at 2T command rate. You can also try disabling "power down mode" in the memory timings menu. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This. Just to add that 4 sticks populated ( which are not exactly the same ), are quite a stress on the memory controller. With 4 sticks I would definitely go 2T. |
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Post by scruffy1 on Dec 3, 2022 21:06:04 GMT -5
the weirdness is that once up and running, they pass every stress test i can throw at them at 1t with the settings shown; bluescreens are a non-event i disabled power down mode and it has already passed 4 runs of 1usmus_v3 memory testing (on 1t)... but a restart is still reluctant without reset
2t.... will consider
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 3, 2022 21:47:29 GMT -5
I'd shoot for 3200mhz 14-14-14-24 1T honestly. That's the supported frequency, so should be a bit more stable.
B-Die responds to V-dimm also, but I think it's the AMD memory controller. It's just hit or miss with Ryzen chips I think.
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Post by MachineLearning on Dec 3, 2022 22:05:57 GMT -5
Totally agree with Jon and George on 2T. Try disabling GDM when you do this. You're already losing some performance from enabling GDM in 1T. I personally don't like GDM and avoid it always.
Bump VDDG, VDDQ to 980mV and see if that helps as well.
VDIMM: B-die is usually happy with more than the 1.4v you're giving it. Does 1.5v or 1.45v improve stability?
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Post by scruffy1 on Dec 4, 2022 3:35:07 GMT -5
the sticks are rated for 3600 16-16-16-36 @ 1.35v www.gskill.com/product/165/184/1536113464/F4-3600C16D-16GVK3200 @ c14 is worse latency than 3600 @ c16 (not by much, but it's there) my suspicion is that bumping the voltage on vddg and vddq might work - pity msi have the devil's bios i am reluctant to up the vdimm as the slots are a bit cramped and even though the case is good, a sandwich of 4 sticks adds heat in the fillers |
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Post by georgekokovinis on Dec 4, 2022 4:45:05 GMT -5
Apologies upfront for being blunt, but B450 is a very basic model.
Please set command rate to 2T and you are good to go.
Nothing else.
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 4, 2022 11:32:34 GMT -5
2T, heck might be able to increase frequency.
So I suggested to lower frequency, cause won't try 2T.
Please don't ask me to be blunt....
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Post by georgekokovinis on Dec 4, 2022 11:51:27 GMT -5
Jon,
People must be reanonable in their expectations.
Low end board with four sticks populated.
What can someone really expect ?
Set XMP, set 2T, end of story.
Sticks are not even paired. Jesus.
Because primary timings are the same ?
Seconds, tertiatteries, rtl, iol ?
Better stay on the safe side.
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 4, 2022 12:34:36 GMT -5
Oh, I agree.
But it's an issue with these.
Helped thousands of people at LTT FORUMS.
gave up.
Seemingly higher than 3% failure rates this generation cpu.
Not fond of MSI.
AMD memory controllers and I/O way behind Intel.
Most typical problem with ascribed hardware =
System restart or hang at idle.
System sudden loss of power kernel 41 error.
Solution, upgrade to 5000 series.
Solution #2, upgrade to LGA 1700.
Solution #3, try suggestions, then upgrade.
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Post by dr4g00n on Dec 4, 2022 13:18:11 GMT -5
I suggest just running 3200 CL14 and call it a day. It really doesn't make enough of a difference to screw around with it, 4 DIMM 3200 CL14 vs 3600 CL14 is a couple percent at best let alone 3600 CL16.
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Post by georgekokovinis on Dec 4, 2022 13:52:51 GMT -5
I suggest just running 3200 CL14 and call it a day. It really doesn't make enough of a difference to screw around with it, 4 DIMM 3200 CL14 vs 3600 CL14 is a couple percent at best let alone 3600 CL16. Why are you people making confusing suggestions to an inexpirienced user ? The OP has two significant disadvantages. 1) low end board. 2) not matched pairs of sticks. This is not Intel. He does not have tools like VccIo and VccSa to iron out memory controler. This is garbage AMD board and he has to do with whatever the board decides to deliver. So, enable DOCP, reboot, set 2T, end. The man wants to get rid of freezing. |
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Post by zila1 on Dec 4, 2022 14:56:18 GMT -5
I'm running a Crosshair VIII Hero Wifi with a 5950X and 4x8 DDR4 3200CL14 G.Skill FlareX(B-Die) @ DDR4 3600CL14(1.45V)on my daily. It is the best machine I have ever had.  |
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 4, 2022 15:01:33 GMT -5
I suggest just running 3200 CL14 and call it a day. It really doesn't make enough of a difference to screw around with it, 4 DIMM 3200 CL14 vs 3600 CL14 is a couple percent at best let alone 3600 CL16. Why are you people making confusing suggestions to an inexpirienced user ? The OP has two significant disadvantages. 1) low end board. 2) not matched pairs of sticks. This is not Intel. He does not have tools like VccIo and VccSa to iron out memory controler. This is garbage AMD board and he has to do with whatever the board decides to deliver. So, enable DOCP, reboot, set 2T, end. The man wants to get rid of freezing. It's actually not a bad suggestion. Might actually be the only way to make it stable for the exact reasons you just mentioned. |
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Post by zila1 on Dec 4, 2022 15:54:04 GMT -5
The board will tell him what it wants. He may not like what it is telling him but like George says, it is a low end board after all. He has to lower his expectations. As an enthusiast I can't have boards like that anymore. They really chafe my hide. LOL
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Post by georgekokovinis on Dec 4, 2022 16:06:08 GMT -5
I'm running a Crosshair VIII Hero Wifi with a 5950X and 4x8 DDR4 3200CL14 G.Skill FlareX(B-Die) @ DDR4 3600CL14(1.45V)on my daily. It is the best machine I have ever had. View Attachment Agreed Eddie  After having sold my daily ( Asus Rampage VI extreme-10980Xe and 64gb mems - bundle sale, offer I could not resist ), I moved my 5950x with board and 32gb mems into my Obsidian900 case. Added a left over 3080ti, 980 pro nvme, 2tb backup and bits and bobs. Running daily 4.7ghz 1.25v, 70c max. Very strong and efficient. Could not be more happy. |
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Post by freeagent on Dec 4, 2022 20:22:18 GMT -5
I am running 4x8 with a very mild tune right now. Nice and quiet You can try these settings out, they may or may not help...  |
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 4, 2022 21:42:08 GMT -5
I run my Samsung 5800mhz....
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Post by scruffy1 on Dec 5, 2022 1:53:38 GMT -5
hahahaha, thanks for all the shit you are giving me about my motherboard  - it's not "high end" but it's okay 
i appreciate the point about "unmatched" sticks... might be more convenient to revert to 2x8 and upgrade mr 20's machine with b-die as well using the other pair
point is (yet again) it runs very happily as set, with the singular exception of occasional cold boot, and consistent reluctance to reboot without complete power down
otherwise it's honkin' 24/7 at 1t, without a single crash
would be helpful if msi could use the same terminology as giga or asus in the bios... wtf is msi's "vddq" equivalent? can someone name the magic parameter to help me play ? that'd be useful
as for "very basic", there's more things to play with in this bios than i can grok, noting that my last board was a z-77 
those that have know me for long time (hi scottie, zila, shrimpbrine, etc) would note that i am not some noob wannabe.... i'm more your geriatric oc wannabe 
dunno why i am so averse to 2t, but i haven't used that setting at that number in the last decade plus, and we old people are set in our ways
now, back to the learning experience, and no, i ain't getting a new motherboard or cpu.... matched ram ? maybe, but 4 sticks was more for e-peen than necessity; i could barely kick 8gb x2 past 50% utilisation
which raises an interesting question : would the newer pair likely be "better" than the experienced 16gb for clocking on their lonesome ?
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 5, 2022 2:12:10 GMT -5
Well, have you had any issues after disabling power down mode? If not, just run it like it is till next upgrade.
There is no point throwing money at this.
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Post by scruffy1 on Dec 5, 2022 2:58:17 GMT -5
 this is where i'm at (finally shows the voltages, unlike the initial screenshot)
i can live with the bios being flakey on boot / reboot - the o.s. seems completely without care about the start up weirdness, and just hums along sweetly
that's the bit that really matters -occasional reluctance to get there is a minor annoyance, but i can't resist tweaking a bit
edit : oooeeee! my bios is so old !
and now?
AMI BIOS 7B89v2H 2022-08-11 17.82 MB
Description:
- Update to AGESA ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.7.
- Change the default setting of Secure Boot.
looks like i've been away too long -that might be a better option than 1.0.0.x hahahahahaha!
update : google-fu suggests anything beyond 1.2.0.3c might well be a (south)bridge too far 
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 5, 2022 7:44:34 GMT -5
Glad you got it sorted out.
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Post by scruffy1 on Dec 5, 2022 8:10:13 GMT -5
more that i'm where i started....but it's an okay destination
as for upgrades, there's really nothing i can swap into my system that won't overwhelm the other bits (except maybe a 5 series cpu and a new gpu), but really it's pretty well balanced re components - and i can play cyberpunk 20277 adequately at 1920x1200
going on past habits, i won't be looking to replace it for half a decade or so
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 5, 2022 8:23:24 GMT -5
Considering the platform is already nearing 4 years old, you only have a couple years till upgrade time!!
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Post by scruffy1 on Dec 5, 2022 21:34:49 GMT -5
that's not how i roll i was still rocking my 2500k till a year before i got given a 2600k for the same rig; ryzen was my first new build since mid 2013 ram / video / sound - upgraded incrementally, but the core was still sandybridge until late march 2020 |
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 6, 2022 1:49:39 GMT -5
that's not how i roll i was still rocking my 2500k till a year before i got given a 2600k for the same rig; ryzen was my first new build since mid 2013 ram / video / sound - upgraded incrementally, but the core was still sandybridge until late march 2020 Dear old friend. If I offer a motherboard, would you consider upgrading NOW to at least socket 1700 LGA?? It's a Asus ROG Strix B660-I. This board is 2 memory slots (great for mem oc) and features wifi and bluetooth built in. Has 2 M.2 slots and only 1 PCI-E slot. For you FREE, shipping FREE. On the house, thank your other fellow comrades of this site. Cause they've helped me out several times, I'm more than happy to give you this offer. If you need a processor, I will ship to you FREE a Celeron G6900 just to get you started off. I do not have additional DDR5 memory at this time, you'll have to make that purchase. I can ship it to Pete if you don't want to share your address, and then he can ship it over to you. This is no problem. Then, at least you'll have a rig that's around 50% faster per core over what you have now and should carry you that 6 years you'd like to go. The board was used for a total of about 14 days. I pulled it out for 2 hours to confirm memory OC. It's rather good at it actually. Let me know. |
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Post by scruffy1 on Dec 6, 2022 7:45:14 GMT -5
a fabulously generous offer, but i am quite content back over to amd on the cpu although i confess i like my nvidia gpu over the red team's option at that level (rtx does look good) i could easily afford bleeding edge but i don't really crave it; as it is i already have 2 m2 slots, but wifi and bluetooth on my desktop rig is superfluous might be "better" on the htpc (where the 2500k went), but in truth, it's like offering me a supercar to go to the shops - massive overkill given my uses, for which everything i actually do is already adequately covered ... hell, my "in bed" streaming device is an asus tf300t and it does spotify and netflix fine a bit slow to load, but then it's just another screen
again, thanks for your kindness, but i'm all good
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Post by ShrimpBrime on Dec 6, 2022 9:04:46 GMT -5
Ok no problem. |
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Post by zila1 on Dec 6, 2022 11:37:28 GMT -5
ShrimpBrime: you're just the best my dear friend. I am very proud to call you my friend.
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- it's not "high end" but it's okay 
