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Post by Macsbeach98 on Apr 29, 2022 4:25:33 GMT -5
I was saying 2v would be the max. Do what ever you think is good. And post up this Youtube video here.
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on Apr 29, 2022 22:56:40 GMT -5
I was saying 2v would be the max. Do what ever you think is good. And post up this Youtube video here. Guess that 0.5v rule is garbage then ¯\_ (ツ) _/¯ ill try to post it before may 11 aka my birthday so i can use my age advantage for views xD though ill be back ~may 8 since im on vacation Btw is 2v ram fully safe for dailying? Im just asking this on behalf of ltt forums since everyone seems adamant on 1.8v being safe
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Post by Macsbeach98 on Apr 29, 2022 23:28:54 GMT -5
About 1.8v is right for safe daily running. Never heard of any .5v rule before.
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on Apr 29, 2022 23:52:55 GMT -5
About 1.8v is right for safe daily running. Never heard of any .5v rule before. Thx for confirming, but i wonder why ive seen ic spec that goes near 2v? Ive heard that hynix ic spec is 1.97v or something Wait youve never heard of qpi/vtt having to be 0.5v within ram volt? Basically if vtt is 1.5v ram cant be over 2v or the imc degrades or something along the lines of that, have you actually run your rams with a bigger volt delta than 0.5v? And if so has there been any sort of degradation? Itd be nice to run higher volt without worrying about imc nuking itself
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Post by Macsbeach98 on Apr 30, 2022 1:19:30 GMT -5
My Rampage extreme III on Auto sets PSC ram at 2v and QPI at 1.3 or lower. I didnt know that when I first set it up and installed an operating system it wasnt until I clocked it up that I seen that the ram was running at 2v. Of course I turned it down to 1.8v but it actually seems to run better with the ram around 1.9v.
I aint worried about daily running anyway just benchmarking why the hell would I want to run X58 as a daily they are old and inefficient.
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on Apr 30, 2022 2:18:09 GMT -5
My Rampage extreme III on Auto sets PSC ram at 2v and QPI at 1.3 or lower. I didnt know that when I first set it up and installed an operating system it wasnt until I clocked it up that I seen that the ram was running at 2v. Of course I turned it down to 1.8v but it actually seems to run better with the ram around 1.9v. I aint worried about daily running anyway just benchmarking why the hell would I want to run X58 as a daily they are old and inefficient. Well if you dont notice any degradation then that 0.5v rule is garbage i guess, oh well time to run 2.4v into my poor rev f stick
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 9, 2022 8:11:32 GMT -5
Welp cranked that rev f stick to 2.46v and it yeilded a rather dissapointing 2200 8-11-10-20 160trfc, 2t cr. Yea i need better sticks than this pile of garbage
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 15, 2022 3:32:36 GMT -5
Im screwing around with my extreem dark ddr2 at 1520 2.36v and now that its stable i need to fix the damn secondaries and tertiares cause ive pretty much nuked them and set them to max
Ive maxed out the primaries cause cl6 is only stable at most 1300 6-8-5-10 2.2-2.3v iirc, trcd cant go lower cause need 9 trcd for 1500+ and wont go any higher either cause that just turns into an unstable mess, trp wont go any lower cause it just destabilizes under 6 at this speed (though i may be wrong about that), and tras cant go lower than 10 cause again unstable mess
Now i wanna tune the secondaries and tertiaries, i nuked all of them to get to 1520 but are there any particular secondaries/tertiaries that may hold you back from reaching higher freq? Also looking for ones that scale with extra volt because i may have enough cooling to run abit higher volt without nuking the freq oc
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 18, 2022 10:33:17 GMT -5
An update on the extreem dark 1520 oc, i managed to fix the subtimibgs and now the primaries at 7-9-6-9 (noice) with volt at 2.38v and its stable as long as temp isnt too hot cause as soon as it gets too hot it just crashes and errors, needed to run my 3300rpm 92mm server fan and an intel fan ontop the rams to make sure the things were being adequately cooled Now i am actually gonna go buy some ddr3 for the x58 system for triple channel, my options are elpida bbbg/bbse/bdbg, micron d9gtr/s/n, and samsung rev d, all 1gbit ics as im only buying 1gb sticks. I will be pushing the volts upwards of 2.46v so volt scaling is very important (ik microns def scale well with volt). the microns are more of a backup option incase if i can get better ics that also scale to 2.46v, like samsung rev d or those elpida ics From most superior to inferior with timing/freq capabilites is what i need to know out of all these ics, same goes for volt scaling cause less volt = bad, for all i know the microns are middlegrounders doing pretty decent timings/freq while scaling very well with volt Cooling wise if i cant cool em with just a fan then i can make an improvised heatspreader out of aluminum foil (which works surprisingly well actually dropping the temps prob ~5-10c on my rev f stick at 2.46v so the ics from burning hot in ~3 sec to lukewarm if i touch them) Heres the improvised heatspreader which works better than i expected since all it does is increase surface area and has basically no mass, maybe ill make an improvised foil pants heatspreader v2 with even more surface area xD
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Post by Vinster on May 18, 2022 20:09:10 GMT -5
careful, usually that Tin-Tape is conductive.
Vin
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 18, 2022 20:28:39 GMT -5
careful, usually that Tin-Tape is conductive. Vin Its not even tape, i just put some thermal paste on the ics and stuck a peice of aluminum foil to the damn thing and it for whatever reason actually works if you have airflow over it
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Post by Macsbeach98 on May 18, 2022 22:49:59 GMT -5
I know its alfoil there are chip capacitors and the spd chip on ram sticks sooner or later you will short a stick out doing that. Its something I wouldnt be doing What are you measuring the temp of the ram with to know the temp is dropping? Or it just feels like it.
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Post by Vinster on May 18, 2022 23:19:09 GMT -5
careful, usually that Tin-Tape is conductive. Vin Its not even tape, i just put some thermal paste on the ics and stuck a peice of aluminum foil to the damn thing and it for whatever reason actually works if you have airflow over it Tin/aluminum foil is conductive. you're lucky you didn't short out the ram stick.
you're going to want to put something like this on the Ram chips and then use thermal glue to hold them on.
Now I'm just referencing these two as a 5min google search to give you an idea. but this is the kind of stuff you should looks for (you'll need to see what will actually work with what you have).
The other alternative would be to buy a set of dead ram sticks on the cheap from ebay that have a heat-spreader already installed and rip them off to use those spreaders on your ram.
Vin
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 18, 2022 23:46:18 GMT -5
Its not even tape, i just put some thermal paste on the ics and stuck a peice of aluminum foil to the damn thing and it for whatever reason actually works if you have airflow over it Tin/aluminum foil is conductive. you're lucky you didn't short out the ram stick.
you're going to want to put something like this on the Ram chips and then use thermal glue to hold them on.
Now I'm just referencing these two as a 5min google search to give you an idea. but this is the kind of stuff you should looks for (you'll need to see what will actually work with what you have).
The other alternative would be to buy a set of dead ram sticks on the cheap from ebay that have a heat-spreader already installed and rip them off to use those spreaders on your ram.
Vin I can get those small heatsinks for cheaper locally, btw how do those tiny heatsinks compare to a regular ram heatspreader I dont really see any problems since there dont seem to be any exposed contacts on the ram sticks, imo the pattern it makes looks kinda cool I can get those cheapo hyperx heatspreaders for <2$ locally but theyre the crappy closed top style and not the prefferable open top you see on most older rams, how much worse is closed top vs open top ram heatspreader wise? Closed top seems to waste the extra surface area inside the rams and no direct cooling can reach the ics Considering how cheap those knockoff hyperx heatspreaders are i think i can just mod em to be open top or straight up make my own design
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Post by Macsbeach98 on May 19, 2022 5:15:08 GMT -5
Real Men dont use Heatspreaders. Heatspreaders on ram is just for show makes them look better they will blow up if you severely overvolt them heatspreader or not.
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 19, 2022 6:57:47 GMT -5
Real Men dont use Heatspreaders. Heatspreaders on ram is just for show makes them look better they will blow up if you severely overvolt them heatspreader or not. Im guessing you are talking about extreme cooling but this is just cooling w a fan, it actually does work cause now when i touch it its only lukewarm while no heatspreader it burns in 3 ish seconds so id assume 5-10c improvement I am considering on making proper heatspreaders that arent literal foil pants, by proper i mean open top like on most ddr2 and some ddr3, the heatspreaders used for show are closed top while ones that focus on performance with a side benifit of aesthetics are open top, from my understanding open top will allow direct airflow on the ram ics while also allowing to use extra surface area on the interior so better cooling capabilities But yes i do agree most closed top heatspreaders are mainly for aesthetics and dont do crap while open tops actually help with cooling and arent just a useless aesthetic peice Btw it seems like i am stuck between getting elpida bdse, micron d9gtr/n/s, and samsung rev d, all 1gbit since im only buying 1gb sticks. At this point volt scaling is what matters the most, ik the micron stuff scales well with volt but i would like rams that reach 2200mhz, considering this rev f stick scales to 2.46v i would assume rev d will do the same, but ofc wont scale as well past a certain volt. Elpida is what worries me as 1.9v is too low and nukes my oc capability, looks like a decently capable ic but if it only scales to 1.9v then its basically garbage I just need to know if elpida stuff other than hypers scale past 2v and benifit from upto 2.46v, looks like decently capable rams so itd suck for em to not scale to 2.46v, and if rams dont scale with volt then its temp scaling and i despise that, my nanya d die does 1520 7-9-6-9 (noice) but at 2.38v its more of a dailyable oc that wont really benifit that much for performance due to rubbish timings, 2.95v would be ideal but heat will prob be a pain at that volt
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Post by ShrimpBrime on May 19, 2022 11:13:36 GMT -5
It's not the spreader or heat plate on the memory.
The glue that holds the metal to the chips for heat transfer is utter garbage.
Air flow, right on the memory, no paste, no tape, no adhesives, just straight naked chips.
2.1v on DDR3 is a starting point.
Like any overclocking, take your time, take notes wash rinse repeat.
Some of these guys spend weeks on end to get memory (any ddr for that matter) to an OC place that pleases them.
Besides the 2 fist falls of variables involved, it's not about what the memory can do by its self. Try your processor cold -50c and compare that to air cooling, the results with the same memory will be vastly different.
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Post by Vinster on May 19, 2022 12:37:18 GMT -5
For the heat-sinks I posted, it was only for example. I'd have to think if you're pushing hard, something is better than nothing no? I do know some HS are for show, some make things worst. but with reputable vendors I thought some would have helped...
for voltages... Wow.. and here I am having never taken DDR2 higher voltages than 2.2v (maybe 2.3v) and DDR3 higher than 1.8v (maybe 1.9v on a drunken brave OC'ing evening)..... you guys are talking 2.1v on ddr3 and what I think you mean as 2.95 on DDR2??? I'm out. GL Vin
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 19, 2022 20:13:54 GMT -5
It's not the spreader or heat plate on the memory. The glue that holds the metal to the chips for heat transfer is utter garbage. Air flow, right on the memory, no paste, no tape, no adhesives, just straight naked chips. 2.1v on DDR3 is a starting point. Like any overclocking, take your time, take notes wash rinse repeat. Some of these guys spend weeks on end to get memory (any ddr for that matter) to an OC place that pleases them. Besides the 2 fist falls of variables involved, it's not about what the memory can do by its self. Try your processor cold -50c and compare that to air cooling, the results with the same memory will be vastly different. No wonder why you guys hate heatspreaders on ram, though my foil pants spreader is held with thermal paste due to how light it is so maybe that explains why my foil pants heatspreader actually helps with temp, atleast under a fan that is I start at 2v ddr3 and crank to 2.46v, pretty much what i did with my rev f when i realized that the 0.5v rule is garbage ppl made up and i can run well over 0.5v ∆ between ram and vtt without imc degradation, how high of a ram volt is x58 imc capable of without dying instantly? Cause atm 2.46v max on my p6t deluxe v2 crossflashed to p6x58d premium, still abit limiting imo
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Post by ShrimpBrime on May 19, 2022 21:11:27 GMT -5
It's not the spreader or heat plate on the memory. The glue that holds the metal to the chips for heat transfer is utter garbage. Air flow, right on the memory, no paste, no tape, no adhesives, just straight naked chips. 2.1v on DDR3 is a starting point. Like any overclocking, take your time, take notes wash rinse repeat. Some of these guys spend weeks on end to get memory (any ddr for that matter) to an OC place that pleases them. Besides the 2 fist falls of variables involved, it's not about what the memory can do by its self. Try your processor cold -50c and compare that to air cooling, the results with the same memory will be vastly different. No wonder why you guys hate heatspreaders on ram, though my foil pants spreader is held with thermal paste due to how light it is so maybe that explains why my foil pants heatspreader actually helps with temp, atleast under a fan that is I start at 2v ddr3 and crank to 2.46v, pretty much what i did with my rev f when i realized that the 0.5v rule is garbage ppl made up and i can run well over 0.5v ∆ between ram and vtt without imc degradation, how high of a ram volt is x58 imc capable of without dying instantly? Cause atm 2.46v max on my p6t deluxe v2 crossflashed to p6x58d premium, still abit limiting imo The tin foil has so little mass, it's not worth the time, but the effort is honest!! So points for that, cause I like cooling experiments also. But memory waterblocks, or colder (dry ice, easy to obtain for -75c or colder) for maxing out DIMMs. The same effect can be had in the winter, when most PC scales better because everyone has nice low ambient temps to work with. Portable air conditioner. Or pipe some cooling from a wall or window mount air conditioner. The TEC idea is fun, but not a cost effective cooling solution. You can't cover the memory surface are because of the shape and fitment to the mainboard. The moral of what I'm trying to say is maxing clocks and voltage on air does have a limitation. I mean under 40c at any given voltage is the aim. Extreme voltage will shorten the life of the memory and high memory controller voltage will shorten the life of your cpu. It's fun till they break. As an example, I prefer looser timings and higher frequency for occasions and certain benchmarks. Tight timings and fast speed, generally most of these guys can tell you. So Cas 6 at 2000mhz DDR3 for benching. That's where it's at. This is great for memory benchmarks like Pimod and Pifast. And this reflects the performance possibility of what you'd expect for gaming. Low latency and good frequency. It beats a CL10 at 2200mhz all day. So CL6 2000mhz, then you're pushing Vdimm. _____ Any how, you're having fun and that's very good. The memory clocks well with loose timings, you get what you get. You could try different processors and see if can get lower Cas, faster speeds. Or maybe a different board. Heck, try one stick at a time even. Usually a single stick will clock best.
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 19, 2022 21:20:22 GMT -5
For the heat-sinks I posted, it was only for example. I'd have to think if you're pushing hard, something is better than nothing no? I do know some HS are for show, some make things worst. but with reputable vendors I thought some would have helped...
for voltages... Wow.. and here I am having never taken DDR2 higher voltages than 2.2v (maybe 2.3v) and DDR3 higher than 1.8v (maybe 1.9v on a drunken brave OC'ing evening)..... you guys are talking 2.1v on ddr3 and what I think you mean as 2.95 on DDR2??? I'm out. GL Vin I thought atleast the open top heatspreaders helped Safe volt for daily depends on ram, some rams can take more volt than others so there is no single safe volt for all rams. Personally i just say haha fk safe volts and run deathzone ram volt as daily because why the hell not From my understanding the more the rams scale with volt and the higher they scale with volt the better so i aim for chips that can scale all the way to 2.46v ddr3 or 2.95v ddr2, though ofc some ics may heat up more than others so i may run into cooling limits rather than ram scaling and volt limits My extreem dark 1066 6-6-6-18 has nanya d die and it is a pain to overclock due to relying so heavily on temps for 1500+ speeds, 2.38v is not bad since its fully safe daily wise but good god id rather have something that scales to 2.6v+ cause 7-9-6-9 (noice) kinda sucks Btw how high does micron d9gmh/gkx clock and scale? Cause ik they scale well with volt but how high do they clock?
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 19, 2022 21:27:45 GMT -5
No wonder why you guys hate heatspreaders on ram, though my foil pants spreader is held with thermal paste due to how light it is so maybe that explains why my foil pants heatspreader actually helps with temp, atleast under a fan that is I start at 2v ddr3 and crank to 2.46v, pretty much what i did with my rev f when i realized that the 0.5v rule is garbage ppl made up and i can run well over 0.5v ∆ between ram and vtt without imc degradation, how high of a ram volt is x58 imc capable of without dying instantly? Cause atm 2.46v max on my p6t deluxe v2 crossflashed to p6x58d premium, still abit limiting imo The tin foil has so little mass, it's not worth the time, but the effort is honest!! So points for that, cause I like cooling experiments also. But memory waterblocks, or colder (dry ice, easy to obtain for -75c or colder) for maxing out DIMMs. The same effect can be had in the winter, when most PC scales better because everyone has nice low ambient temps to work with. Portable air conditioner. Or pipe some cooling from a wall or window mount air conditioner. The TEC idea is fun, but not a cost effective cooling solution. You can't cover the memory surface are because of the shape and fitment to the mainboard. The moral of what I'm trying to say is maxing clocks and voltage on air does have a limitation. I mean under 40c at any given voltage is the aim. Extreme voltage will shorten the life of the memory and high memory controller voltage will shorten the life of your cpu. It's fun till they break. As an example, I prefer looser timings and higher frequency for occasions and certain benchmarks. Tight timings and fast speed, generally most of these guys can tell you. So Cas 6 at 2000mhz DDR3 for benching. That's where it's at. This is great for memory benchmarks like Pimod and Pifast. And this reflects the performance possibility of what you'd expect for gaming. Low latency and good frequency. It beats a CL10 at 2200mhz all day. So CL6 2000mhz, then you're pushing Vdimm. _____ Any how, you're having fun and that's very good. The memory clocks well with loose timings, you get what you get. You could try different processors and see if can get lower Cas, faster speeds. Or maybe a different board. Heck, try one stick at a time even. Usually a single stick will clock best. Unfortunately i do not have the expertise to build a phase change system, maybe i can do waterchiller but i havent found any non tec ac units under 50$, ram runs cool while its not being stressed so tecs wont have any issues with cooling idle rams to subzero, but i am concerned for when rams get loaded and start running toasty, my idea is pretty much just run tec at 72w or lower at idle and overvolt to 17 or higher for when the rams get loaded. How cold do these 12706 tecs usually get if hot side is 30-40c? I bet theres a way to make one that auto adjusts volt to hit temp goal, maybe with a cheapo arduino but i have no experience with programming Mounting wise ill just attatch it to ram heatspreaders or integrate it into a custom heatspreader assembly
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Post by Vinster on May 20, 2022 7:14:53 GMT -5
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 20, 2022 10:58:25 GMT -5
Thats what i refer to as a waterchiller but under 0c and its def not water but oh well ill still call it waterchiller Well maybe later ill f around with waterchilling, cheapest i can get ac units is ~60$ unfortunately so i doubt ill be able to convince my mom to buy sht like that xD maybe if i can make my own money i can buy sht like this but only idea i have atm is just selling rams with modified xmps, fixing broken computer parts has gone down the drain due to how god damn unpredictable it is, would be nice if someone can suggest another idea for making money out of computers other than mining
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Post by Vinster on May 20, 2022 19:31:45 GMT -5
Thats what i refer to as a waterchiller but under 0c and its def not water but oh well ill still call it waterchiller Well maybe later ill f around with waterchilling, cheapest i can get ac units is ~60$ unfortunately so i doubt ill be able to convince my mom to buy sht like that xD maybe if i can make my own money i can buy sht like this but only idea i have atm is just selling rams with modified xmps, fixing broken computer parts has gone down the drain due to how god damn unpredictable it is, would be nice if someone can suggest another idea for making money out of computers other than mining I was using -45Degree Windshield washer fluid... still water, but I wouldn't drink it... lol
------------------------------------------------------
To make $$$ with computers.. don't be in service or servicing... save initial grub, buy a skid of returns (some on ebay, or usually local with an auction house selling returns from amazon, best buy, circuit city, etc..) and then refrurb fix them, reinstall windows (every new PC from big box has a licence) and sell them on your local buy and sell...
when buying a skid you'll usually get a number of units and sometimes generation information.. assume you won't be able to get 50% going and use that for your cut-off price of like $50-$75/unit. if it's good stuff you'll be able sell it for $75-$125.. if lucky more... what can't be saved, separate the metals and sell to a metal recycler..
This method relies on volume... you won't make a ton on 1 auction... but hope (if very luck) the 1st one pays for part of the the 2nd and you get your initial or part of your $$$ back... DON'T BORROW TO START!!!! Use your money... if you mess up.. there nobody that's going to hound you.... Summer is here.. if you have to cut lawns for 2 weeks to get your start $$$ then that's what it takes...
everything after that is cherry... I knew a young kid that did really well doing this.. he then ventured in to car and home audio... Did well for himself until university... kid was 18-19 at the time, living at home and using mom and dads garage as storage and space for his setup, he had a buddy with a truck for Pickup/Delivery of the skid from the auction house to his house.. he had 2 nice cars, both nicer than my daily...
That's one way I know that is short term successful. But you have to be smart.
Vin
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 24, 2022 8:35:52 GMT -5
Im gonna go buy 1x3 ram very soon and now ive found only 2 choices available, eplida BDSE or micron D9JNx/KPx. Main priority is volt scaling to 2.46v while also being able to run tight timings, i may be able to get D9GTx but unlikely so just assume the crappier 1gbit microns, elpidas look good timings wise but if they only scale to 1.9v then no point
So elpida chip or micron chip?
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Post by Macsbeach98 on May 24, 2022 9:23:12 GMT -5
elidas at 1.9v will belt the crap out of any D9. D9 was made for 775 DDR3 and that is all they were good for I have two pairs of D9 here a Corsair and Mushkin sets that I never use would rather run elpida or PSC than Micron. Here is a pic of my water chiller made from a portable air con 10000BTU One thing to remember more CPU frequency will give you better results then tighter ram timings.
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 24, 2022 19:43:14 GMT -5
elidas at 1.9v will belt the crap out of any D9. D9 was made for 775 DDR3 and that is all they were good for I have two pairs of D9 here a Corsair and Mushkin sets that I never use would rather run elpida or PSC than Micron. Here is a pic of my water chiller made from a portable air con 10000BTU One thing to remember more CPU frequency will give you better results then tighter ram timings. How about d9 at 2.46v? Im pitting garbage d9 vs garbage elpida here Also how the hell do you find a portable ac that actually has a phase system rather than a tec or something? Btw whats the cost to even make that? Would this kind of portable ac work? Also what types of portable ac should i look for? Ive even seen some that need ice to work
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Post by Macsbeach98 on May 24, 2022 19:53:09 GMT -5
Where do you get TEC ones I have never seen one of those and couldnt see performance being any good. Below is a pic of what it looked like originally cost me $60 used on fleabay they are a dime a dozen on there plenty to pick from. The top evaporating radiator is just bent over to sit in the cooler.
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Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 24, 2022 20:34:52 GMT -5
Actually screw acs how about using fridges instead? Found some for ~30-40$, id assume i should go for the 2 door ones since they should have more capacity
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