|
Post by Vinster on May 24, 2022 20:34:54 GMT -5
you'll just have to take a look at the AV units, open the vent on the unit to see if you can make it work. AC units aren't created equal. Some just work, some just don't. I've previously tried and ended up just re-selling the units for what I paid for them... once you pop the cover off, you'll know in 5 min if you can male it work. only catch is, the pump and compressor must stay in the same orientation of the original unit. you cannot flip that gear on it's side.
Fridges don't get as cold, freezers won't work as the coil is usually wrapped in the walls...
Vin
|
|
|
Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 24, 2022 20:56:06 GMT -5
you'll just have to take a look at the AV units, open the vent on the unit to see if you can make it work. AC units aren't created equal. Some just work, some just don't. I've previously tried and ended up just re-selling the units for what I paid for them... once you pop the cover off, you'll know in 5 min if you can male it work. only catch is, the pump and compressor must stay in the same orientation of the original unit. you cannot flip that gear on it's side.
Fridges don't get as cold, freezers won't work as the coil is usually wrapped in the walls...
Vin Acs too expensive, i dont really care anyways since ill prob only use it to chill rams and nb cause pretty sure cpu is gonna need alot more than just 100w ish of fridge capacity, ill prob upgrade the fans on the condensor and find a way to make the hot air go outside my room Btw how much more efficient is a waterchiller compared to a tec cause apparently tec can only do ~20% at best efficiency
|
|
|
Post by Macsbeach98 on May 24, 2022 22:53:53 GMT -5
One problem how are you going to get the evaporator radiator into the ice cooler without breaking the lines.
|
|
|
Post by Vinster on May 24, 2022 22:54:09 GMT -5
Tec's are good for lower end single and really low dual cores (30-45w i believe). Shrimpy is the Tec guy here, he'd know more than anyone else here.
For my AC chiller I kept an i7-920 (130w) CPU overclocked to 4.6/4.7ghz at -15 degrees C for benches... a Tec can't do that.
Vin
|
|
|
Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 25, 2022 1:44:40 GMT -5
Tec's are good for lower end single and really low dual cores (30-45w i believe). Shrimpy is the Tec guy here, he'd know more than anyone else here. For my AC chiller I kept an i7-920 (130w) CPU overclocked to 4.6/4.7ghz at -15 degrees C for benches... a Tec can't do that. Vin What kind of ac are you using for those temps? I think ill use a smaller fridge just because evaps on fridges are massive, though are there any ways to make an existing chiller run colder? Ive heard swapping refrigerants may help
|
|
|
Post by Macsbeach98 on May 25, 2022 3:59:00 GMT -5
What you have to do is take the air con apart there are 2 radiators in them a condensing one and a evaporating one the evaporating radiator has to go into a esky cooler which is filled with coolant and a pump has to pump the coolant through the waterblock hoses and the outside of the waterblock have to be insulated to stop water getting to the socket and motherboard. You cant get the evaporator radiator out of a fridge thay are usually a pipe that is wrapped around and around the freezer section. Make them run colder you disconnect all the thermostat and electronics so they just run flatout Here is a pic of mine setup.
|
|
|
Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 25, 2022 4:50:37 GMT -5
btw on the micron rams they have D9MNL, how does this pit up against D9GTR/S/N? id assume its prob some random garbage
|
|
|
Post by Macsbeach98 on May 25, 2022 6:08:30 GMT -5
Wouldnt have a clue I gave up on micron ram back in the 775 days you will be lucky to get 2000 out of them
|
|
|
Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 25, 2022 6:42:27 GMT -5
Wouldnt have a clue I gave up on micron ram back in the 775 days you will be lucky to get 2000 out of them In that case i wont bother unless i can get it for cheaper Well that just leaves this bdse stuff, has anyone ever overclocked any of these BB/D/F/BG or BB/D/FSE elpida ics before? I would be dissapointed if it only scales to a meager 1.9v, i would prefer 2.46v but 2v atleast, 2.46v is just because degradation test since if i end up upgrading this thing and i dont go straight to ryzen i will prob end up using samsung 2gbit rev d which can scale upto 2.3v apparently (prob 2.46v too), the cpu is garbage anyways so who cares if the imc degrades on this rubbish x5660
|
|
|
Post by Aleslammer on May 25, 2022 6:46:29 GMT -5
Sorry forgot to hit the next page.
Fridges for home use not a good idea, commercial fridges will generally work if kept in the original shape as they are designed for heavier traffic would depend on design specs. Home fridges will also work if the needed components are removed, and better cooling supplied to the hot side. My generally understanding from my days of playing with the idea.
|
|
|
Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 25, 2022 7:59:21 GMT -5
Sorry forgot to hit the next page. Fridges for home use not a good idea, commercial fridges will generally work if kept in the original shape as they are designed for heavier traffic would depend on design specs. Home fridges will also work if the needed components are removed, and better cooling supplied to the hot side. My generally understanding from my days of playing with the idea. I will upgrade the fan on the condensor side, prob just shove my 12cm 1.3a at ~3500rpm screamer of a server fan on it and overvolt to 24v or something xD im aiming for the ~100w ones but may consider the lower wattage ones if i wanna try dailying sub ambient rams and nb
|
|
|
Post by Macsbeach98 on May 25, 2022 17:43:59 GMT -5
Do what you like me and Vinster have told you fridges wont really work you will have to cut the fridge in half to get the evaporator out of it I imagine modern fan forced fridges have evaps that are a radiator size but getting the evap down and into a cooler good luck with that you wont have a fridge just the bare base with the compressor and condensor also you cant break the lines to the evaporator and it has to go into a cooler box. Another breaker for you is the cost of the coolant it cost me $120 for 25 litres of Bosch windscreen washer fluid which turns out it starts to freeze at -15 I end up with a cooler of ice and not much fluid left I am looking to import deicer from the states which will cost me $250 all up with freight.
|
|
|
Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 25, 2022 20:00:20 GMT -5
Do what you like me and Vinster have told you fridges wont really work you will have to cut the fridge in half to get the evaporator out of it I imagine modern fan forced fridges have evaps that are a radiator size but getting the evap down and into a cooler good luck with that you wont have a fridge just the bare base with the compressor and condensor also you cant break the lines to the evaporator and it has to go into a cooler box. Another breaker for you is the cost of the coolant it cost me $120 for 25 litres of Bosch windscreen washer fluid which turns out it starts to freeze at -15 I end up with a cooler of ice and not much fluid left I am looking to import deicer from the states which will cost me $250 all up with freight. How about regular car antifreeze?
|
|
|
Post by Vinster on May 25, 2022 20:31:51 GMT -5
Mix it right and that could work. just have to be careful on the Pump, tubing and fittings. Some antifreeze don't play nice with the plastics and mixed metals.. would work for a bit until it doesn't. I also used Windscreen washer fluid, it's glycol based and shouldn't harm any those materials. Where I am, I can get stuff rated to as low as -45c... was perfect for my -30 degree loop.... I used five 3 gallon jugs at $20-$25/ea.
Playing in this, for the pump, get a good submersible pond pump. I used a pump external to the tank and the electronics side of that bugger froze up and stopped working.. condensation shorted it out. Thawed and dried it out and it still worked so I took it apart and filled it with non-conductive grease. been good ever since...
Vin
|
|
|
Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 26, 2022 4:00:15 GMT -5
Mix it right and that could work. just have to be careful on the Pump, tubing and fittings. Some antifreeze don't play nice with the plastics and mixed metals.. would work for a bit until it doesn't. I also used Windscreen washer fluid, it's glycol based and shouldn't harm any those materials. Where I am, I can get stuff rated to as low as -45c... was perfect for my -30 degree loop.... I used five 3 gallon jugs at $20-$25/ea. Playing in this, for the pump, get a good submersible pond pump. I used a pump external to the tank and the electronics side of that bugger froze up and stopped working.. condensation shorted it out. Thawed and dried it out and it still worked so I took it apart and filled it with non-conductive grease. been good ever since...
Vin I think ill run a 20% ish antifreeze to water mix for my ghetto waterloop just to stop galvanic corrosion, would that not harm any plastics? Im using a 107 spec pond pump (5m h max, 5000 flow rate iirc), i got it cheap at ~10$, and tubing wise looks similar to garden hose tubing but it has no color, i dont think ill be building one of these chillers anytime soon Also on the rams the seller apparently had some x series psc on some random transcend rams, guess ill be sticking to a measly 1.9-2v but timings should be pretty good
|
|
|
Post by Macsbeach98 on May 26, 2022 6:36:54 GMT -5
20% antifreeze will be quiet Ok for a watercooling loop.
|
|
|
Post by Aleslammer on May 26, 2022 7:34:05 GMT -5
This thread brings back some distance memories.
Coldest ice bucket setup I've seen was done with dice, acetone and standard WC parts. Acetone in the bucket and the fluid for the loop. End result was not that far off from a standard dice pot. Problem was what the acetone did to the seals in the WC parts and the D5 pump had some problems as I remember, tubing don't remember. Thread got some WOW statements on site and quickly forgotten.
Viscosity also has to taken into account, 10c on my chiller about 7.5 +/- LPM, 0c 4.2 +/- LPM, I've been colder but don't have written down data. There are fluids available in the HVAC world that are more viscosity friendly but not in the small quantities needed for WC computer setups at an acceptable price.
|
|
|
Post by Bones on May 26, 2022 7:42:38 GMT -5
20% antifreeze will be quiet Ok for a watercooling loop. Shold do just fine as long as it's freezing temp isn't exceeded. Anti-freeze when it gets cold works but with the expense of the coolant itself thickening up, placing more strain on the pump. I've had a 50/50 (Or stronger) mix before, got it nice-n-cold and the pump didn't like it at all, was almost like pumping syrup for it once that stuff got cold. The suggestions about using washerfluid that's glycol based is an alternative to look into.
|
|
|
Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 28, 2022 2:41:35 GMT -5
Now ive got the 3 psc sticks, yep theyre x series and theyre transcend 1333 sticks, 2200 7-10-7-24 had no issues getting into windows but good god is 6-10-6/7-24 a fking pain, also they seem to not like going over 2v at all so looks like these are duds atm
Anyone have experience with these pscs? My theory now is lowering twcl may force it to accept over 2v but i cannot find any twcl or write cas delay anywhere in the bios so does anyone know what asus calls twcl?
|
|
|
Post by Macsbeach98 on May 28, 2022 3:21:08 GMT -5
WTF is your obsession with high voltage are you just trying to kill them I never take PSC over 2v they will live a very short life. Everything you do you give ram and CPUs insane voltage the sort of voltages you talk about will cause instability and degredation. The only DDR3 that you should give over 2v are micron. Tell me why you think having the ram over 2v is helping you because I can tell you it isnt.
|
|
|
Post by georgekokovinis on May 28, 2022 3:31:03 GMT -5
WTF is your obsession with high voltage are you just trying to kill them I never take PSC over 2v they will live a very short life. Everything you do you give ram and CPUs insane voltage the sort of voltages you talk about will cause instability and degredation. The only DDR3 that you should give over 2v are micron. Tell me why you think having the ram over 2v is helping you because I can tell you it isnt. Maybe you should let the man kill a few cpu's and mem sticks. THAT is the only way to really learn and respect HW.
|
|
|
Post by Bones on May 28, 2022 6:19:07 GMT -5
Now ive got the 3 psc sticks, yep theyre x series and theyre transcend 1333 sticks, 2200 7-10-7-24 had no issues getting into windows but good god is 6-10-6/7-24 a fking pain, also they seem to not like going over 2v at all so looks like these are duds atm Anyone have experience with these pscs? My theory now is lowering twcl may force it to accept over 2v but i cannot find any twcl or write cas delay anywhere in the bios so does anyone know what asus calls twcl? That is all too true with PSC - They don't like it or even need it to max out. Moar voltage isn't always the answer, sometimes moar voltage causes more problems than it solves as as indicated it can and will kill stuff. What you get isn't voltage based in many cases - True, you do have to volt things beyond stock to go higher but at the same time everything has a limit to what it can take and still live. Every stick of RAM, CPU or anything esle you can name has a threshold of what it can take before it dies, usually indicated by what you are describing with it's behaviour. Usually 1.8 - 1.85v with proper cooling for them is about as high as I go with my PSC sticks even though they might be able to take a little more and still be OK. I've had mine for over 10 years now and they are still doing well so there you go.
|
|
|
Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 28, 2022 7:56:45 GMT -5
Welp these sticks are duds when they cant take advantage of x58 imc being able to survive 2.46v, unfortunately theyre actual duds not even stabilizing even at a meager 7-11-7-24 2200 which im only running ~1.8v for, am i hitting a volt wall or is x58 imc just that bad? Tried 6-10-6-24 and it just constantly bsods
Im now trying single stick oc and see if swapping the rams around will stabilize the oc
|
|
|
Post by Macsbeach98 on May 28, 2022 19:25:34 GMT -5
The IMC doesnt have anything to do with giving the ram big volt have you ever heard of QPI Dram voltage that is the NB/IMC of the CPU Dram bus voltage is the ram. Dram Bus voltage the one that says setting above 1.65v can damage your CPU on Asus boards that is the dram voltage.
|
|
|
Post by georgekokovinis on May 28, 2022 19:43:01 GMT -5
The IMC doesnt have anything to do with giving the ram big volt have you ever heard of QPI Dram voltage that is the NB/IMC of the CPU Dram bus voltage is the ram. Dram Bus voltage the one that says setting above 1.65v can damage your CPU on Asus boards that is the dram voltage. Peter, how much do you charge per hour for lessons ? Elementary class OFC. Thank you
|
|
|
Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 28, 2022 23:01:43 GMT -5
The IMC doesnt have anything to do with giving the ram big volt have you ever heard of QPI Dram voltage that is the NB/IMC of the CPU Dram bus voltage is the ram. Dram Bus voltage the one that says setting above 1.65v can damage your CPU on Asus boards that is the dram voltage. I am adjusting the dram voltage, thats the volt i pushed to 2.46v for my samsung rev f But really these rams are actual duds, i have been trying to get 7-10-7-24 stable but these sticks are trash, currently trying 1.76v cause 1.65-1.8v dont seem to help Edit: actually it was the back to back cas delay that was screwing me over, though what exactly is this timing? Is it twcl just will bullcrap asus name? Also does anyone hav eany decent subtimings i can use as a reference?
|
|
|
Post by Macsbeach98 on May 29, 2022 3:36:24 GMT -5
If they are any good you should be able to get 6-9-7-24 @2000 with 1.8v or less they are probably burnt a lot of old ram is burnt these days people that dont know try giving them 2.4 volt and find they degrade quick or one of the sticks just plain dies. Honestly I cant see you buying a good set of PSC for any less than $50 probably more good sets are becoming hard to find.
|
|
|
Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 29, 2022 7:10:57 GMT -5
If they are any good you should be able to get 6-9-7-24 @2000 with 1.8v or less they are probably burnt a lot of old ram is burnt these days people that dont know try giving them 2.4 volt and find they degrade quick or one of the sticks just plain dies. Honestly I cant see you buying a good set of PSC for any less than $50 probably more good sets are becoming hard to find. These are transcend oem sticks, you sure someone tried to give it 2.4v? I guess 1gbs are useless but id assume at most someone would try 2.2v cause 2.4v is only on x58 or older for whatever reason Also my rev f does 2200 8-11-10-20 2.46v, i would guess it isnt a burnt out stick, prob just a horrible ic Edit: looks like pscs hate overly loose trfc, now that ive tightened it up abit the rams are alot less prone to erroring like crazy
|
|
|
Post by somerandomtechyboi on May 29, 2022 9:47:46 GMT -5
Actually it does 5-10-7-24 at 1.8v, and i thought these rams were garbage
Any other timings that i can play with? 1.8v is still extremely low so theres still some headroom since these rams top out at 2v
Edit: 1x3 stable at 2140 5-10-7-24 82trfc 1.8v, seems like it tops out at 1.8v, pretty sad but atleast the timings are good
|
|
|
Post by Bones on May 29, 2022 11:30:38 GMT -5
Actually it does 5-10-7-24 at 1.8v, and i thought these rams were garbage Any other timings that i can play with? 1.8v is still extremely low so theres still some headroom since these rams top out at 2v Edit: 1x3 stable at 2140 5-10-7-24 82trfc 1.8v, seems like it tops out at 1.8v, pretty sad but atleast the timings are good I'll say it again, voltage has nothing to do with how good a set is. Just because they doesn't like higher voltages does not mean they are bad, it's the ultimate result of speed and timings achieved that determines their worth. All voltage does is help to get them to their limit, wherever that winds up being and once you're reached it, that it - No amount of voltage will get them to go higher but going higher and then even higher with voltage will only make them run hotter and hotter..... That's not a good thing.
|
|